Why imation CDR (48x spindle) burn at 16x max?

[tacos40]

Hello there, Happy New Year !!!!

I have been searching the forum and have not found useful info about this fact, so I post:

I have an Acer/BenQ CRW2410A burner (max 24x speed). I use Nero (some high 5.xxx version) under Win98se. ASPI layer 4.*.60 (the surest one). HDD defragmented periodically (WD 1200, 8 MB buffer, DMA on, etc). Additionally, "cdrom.cfg" file from march 2003.

The fact: Some 48x labeled CDR brands like Verbatim, Platinum and others burn correctly at 24x speed. normal. BUT other 48x labeled CDR brands like Imation and Memorex can only be burned at 16x max speed ....

WHY ???????? I haven't got a way to workaround the self-configuration of Nero write speed. You load an empty Verbatim labeled 48x CDR, then you can select happily 24x speed; you load an empty labeled Imation 48x CDR, then you CAN NOT select 24x, only 16x MAX...

Thans in advance for any help or technical explanation...!

 

[serjer]

well well if ur cd's burning part is plain 'platinum colored'(not blue azo colored) ,then most likely ur cd are made by some damn manufacturers who doesn't make quality products...
imation & some verbatim 'plains' r/were made by CMC magnetics,which ain't loved by most members here coz quality is inferior..but in my experience,there r other (small) companies who make more inferior cds than cmc
if u wanna try 2 find out who's the cd producer,go get burnatonce...it can get the ATIP info & give u the name of the manufacturer

 

[LTR12101B]

I'd say the drive is making an accurate assessment of media quality - Imation = CMC = poor and variable media.

That speed reduction is probably REQUIRED in order to give good results.

 

[woody]

Had the same media,with the same results.They are CMC junk.Wish I knew that before I bought them.

 

[serjer]

well i've seen worst than CMC

 

[woody]

well i've seen worst than CMC

Yeah...me too...got some made by Mitsumi once..arghh..

 

[Master]

It´s more a problem of the acer/benq burner. The old Acers are realy bad cd-writer (don´t know about the new ones) and their firmware is awfull..mostly.

Sorry

 

[scarecrow]

CMC are really bad media, but exhellent compared to some Lexmark CDR I've bought 3 years ago (don't ask for the real maker please... I tried very hard to forget him, and somehow I succeded!).
Sixteen out of 20 were toasted during burning, 3 of them had lots of C2 errors ond just ONE of them burned OK... by the way it's unreadable since mid-2003!

 

[tacos40]

Thank you a lot for all this valuable info... Now, I would think/suspect what I write below [Im gonna try other modern burners], but I would like to know what do you think about:

(a) Ok [at least 'historically'] CMC manufactured CDR are low/variable-quality
(b) 2 years ago it was somehow known by CDRW drive manufacturers. Hence, they programmed [2001-2002] firmware to read ATIP info and prevent highest write speeds on these 'black-listed' manfacturers, so ensuring good results for the user [not a burned CD for a trash can]. That's keen, so the user probable would complain about the CDR-quality, not the CDRW drive quality.
(c) There are not more recent firmware for this 24x Acer/Benq drive model [I flashed the latest one; I have to check but I think is about middle-2002]. Maybe CMC CDR could improve since 1 year ago and suspect modern CDRW drives [48x and up] would write the ver same CDR I have at higher speeds [32x, for example].
(d) Well, I am gonna find the burnatonce/ATIP reader(s) and learn a bit more.

Thanks in advance for any feedback

 

[LTR12101B]

http://www.nero.com/en/631938347208129.html
Not sure if this is relevant or not?

Nero MIGHT allow you to turn off the speed control - in the Drive properties (more options), on the Left is normally the check for whatever they call "Burnproof" on that drive, and if supported, the speed control will normally be on the right.
In some drives, it will be enforced regardless, and there is no way to turn it off.

From what I read, the "intelligent" drives will recognise some media and use defined parameters for it, and assess other media during power calibration.

 

[serjer]

moreover,burning @ a lower speed ensures that u'll get less prone 2 errors/bad disk

 

[Master]

@LTR12101b

That acer has it´s own buffer underrun protection. I think it´s called seamless link (or something like that) and you can´t switch it off, even not with nero. It´s always on.

 

[tacos40]

Thank you again. Consistent info:

Effectively, It seems my Benq drive does not permit to switch these properties off. I explored and tried to change them with regedit [they are almost obvious] but Nero switch them back to original values, highly probably due to a Benq/Hw seamless link commandment...

I have been collecting info from web and my PC. Nero has a tool named CD Speed. I have the following version: "Nero CD-DVD Speed Version 2.11", giving me the following info with 3 different brands I do have at this very moment:

PLATINUM CDR's
Manufacturer : Ritek
Code : 97m15s17f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 7: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.73
703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested

IMATION CDR's
Manufacturer : unknown (Now I know it is MBI = Moser Baer India Limited)
Code : 97m17s06f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 6: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.74
703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested

VERBATIM CDR's:
Manufacturer : CMC Magnetics
Code : 97m26s66f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 6: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.71
703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested

Surprisingly, CMC appears [in my case] as Verbatim manufacturer and these CDRs behave perfectly for me. Platinum normally behaves well, but lately are giving me some bad disks [I dont know but maybe previous manufactures were different]. The Imation is the only UNKNOWN manufacturer for Nero/Benq combo but associated code is really known in the web as MBI = 'Moser Baer India Limited'.

The first thing I think with this info is: "Maybe UNKNOWN CDR manufacturer for this Nero/Benq Sw+Hw combination leads to a cautious write speed slowdown. Could be Nero or [more probably] is this Benq firmware".

On the web I have found, for example, http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/127/4 and http://www.cis.com.tw/Download/arrgo48test.pdf [list a lot of manufacter codes !!] that say to me these MBI CDRs may be burned at higher speeds [with a better drive brand or a better benq firmware].

Well, i will keep a bit my investigations.... Welcome feedback and thank you all again!!

 

[scarecrow]

Dunno what appears at your screen, but Verbatim does NOT make any media- they just stamp various badges, some very good (Mitsubishi), some mediocre (Prodisk), and some very poor (CMC, Princo).

 

[tacos40]

I agree. Maybe the info I wrote above is not clear enough (sorry if that's the case). It's [almost] a copy & paste of Nero CD Speed tool. I have only added the visible 'brand' on CDR surface and/or box as separators and the commented parenthesis about Moser Baer obtained from the web .... Making it clearer:

BRAND = Verbatim DataLife CD-R 48x 700MB. They are white
Nero Cd speed reports MANUFACTURER CODE = 97m26s66f (= CMC Magnetics)

BRAND = Platinum CD-R Multispeed 700MB (the box shows 40x). They are silver
Nero Cd speed reports MANUFACTURER CODE = 97m15s17f (= Ritek)

BRAND = imation CD-R 700MB (the box shows 1x-48x compatible). silver too
Nero Cd speed reports MANUFACTURER CODE = 97m17s06f (= unknown)

I search the web for those codes [I had never seen before] and found consistently Manufacturer "names" and its respective "codes"; so I discovered 97m17s06f = MBI = Moder Baer India Limited.

Other: I tried before the [Nero] URL patch suggested by LTR12101B. I think is relevant but it did not work, probably due to Benq firmware is stubborn to this change :-(

 

[LTR12101B]

So does it get full speed with the Verbatim CMC - I think in other tests they may have been one of the better ranked CMC media.

There was a MONSTER argument about CMC in the cdrinfo forums, which basically ended in "prove it" - and someone did.... There are CMC media which are up there with the average, but the brands that carry them seem not to be those you'd expect - I mean, you'd think 3M/Imation would be on the premium grade, with a repution in magnetic media and other products, why do they allow the CD-R side to let them down?

 

[tacos40]

It's clear that known brand name (like Verbatim, Imation, etc) normally do not manufacture themselves the CD-R's. They only press its beautiful name on them.

It seems Princo is an exception [brand = PRINCO, manufacturer = PRINCO]: so I now understand why they are one of the cheapest CDR's (I do not use them).

What I really would like to know NOW [when buying CDR's] is the real manufacturer behind the visible brand name... HOW can I know that ????

 

[serjer]

i once heard that cdrs produced in india r @ a much lower quality than those low cost producers

 

[woody]

CMC does make some decent(okay) media.The Imation cdr's i purchased weren't one of them.

I don't know of anyway to test the true manufacturer of the media,until you purchase it.Especially difficult when they mix brands,you don't know what you can end up with.

 

[tacos40]

I have continued my 'short' investigation with other CDR/W brands
I own (not too much, though) moved by curiosity. I am still using
'Nero CD-DVD Speed Version 2.11'. So I have made the [yet growing]
list below, a kind of sampling list. I post it here presuming it
might be useful for others.

I have seen the web too: Mitsubishi, Taiyo Yuden, and Fuji*film seem
to have a very good reputation, among other manufacturers.

'Same manufacturer' does not mean necessarily 'same product' and
hence 'same quality'; see below Ritek or CMC, for example.

Note 1: cdfreaks shows good articles (analysis/graphs, comparisons)
Note 2: cdspeed2000.com have interesting long 'reference' lists)
Note 3: Asteriscs = *my comments*
Note 4: OK! = I can burn at 24x with my Acer/Benq 24x max drive
Note 5: NOK = I can burn at 16x max ... :-(
Note 6: -/- = Not tested/burned by myself
: There are more notes below ...

MY OWN LIST:
************

*Printed BRAND 1/1 = PLATINUM CDR's (40x, silver, OK!)*
Manufacturer : Ritek
Code : 97m15s17f *medium reputation?*
Recording Layer : Dye Type 7: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)
*Note 7: Easy to break CDs*

*Printed BRAND 1/2 = IMATION CDR's (48x, silver, NOK)*
Manufacturer : unknown *really Moser Baer India Limited*
Code : 97m17s06f *suspicious/unknown reputation*
Recording Layer : Dye Type 6: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)


*Printed BRAND 2/2 = IMATION CDR's (48x, silver/coloured, NOK)*
Manufacturer : CMC Magnetics *bad/variable reputation*
Code : 97m26s66f
Recording Layer : Dye Type 6: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)


*Printed BRAND 1/2 = VERBATIM CDR's (48x, DataLife, white, OK!)*
Manufacturer : CMC Magnetics
Code : 97m26s66f
Recording Layer : Dye Type 6: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)


*Printed BRAND 2/2 = VERBATIM CDR's (48x, Pastel Disc, coloured, OK!)*
Manufacturer : Taiyo Yuden *very good reputation*
Code : 97m24s01f
Recording Layer : Dye Type 1: Long Strategy (Cyanine, AZO)


*Printed BRAND 1/2 = TDK CDR's (32x, white, NOK):*
Manufacturer : TDK
Code : 97m15s05f *medium reputation?*
Recording Layer : Dye Type 5: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)


*Printed BRAND 2/2 = TDK CDR's (24x blue, NOK!)*
Manufacturer : TDK
Code : 97m32s01f
Recording Layer : Dye Type 1: Long Strategy (Cyanine, AZO)


*Printed BRAND 1/1 = MEMOREX CDR's (24x, silver, NOK!)*
Manufacturer : Ritek
Code : 97m15s17f *same as platinum, but NOK*
Recording Layer : Dye Type 7: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)
*Note 8: very hard to break CDs! *

*Printed BRAND 1/1 = ??? CDRW's (10x, silver)*
Manufacturer : CMC Magnetics
Code : 97m26s65f (not very good results for me)
Disc Type : HighSpeed CD-RW
Recording Layer : Phase Change
Recording Speed : 4 X - 10 X


*Printed BRAND 1/1 = MEMOREX CDRW's (10x, silver)*
Manufacturer : Infodisc
Code : 97m25s30f (good results for me)
Disc Type : HighSpeed CD-RW
Recording Layer : Phase Change
Recording Speed : 4 X - 10 X


*Printed BRAND 1/1 = LG CDRW's (10x, silver)*
Manufacturer : Mitsubishi
Code : 97m34s23f (good reputation)
Disc Type : HighSpeed CD-RW
Recording Layer : Phase Change
Recording Speed : 4 X - 10 X


*Printed BRAND 1/1 = PRECISION CDR's (24x or 32x, silver, OK! and NOK)*
Manufacturer : Ritek
Code : 97m15s17f *medium/variable reputation*
Recording Layer : Dye Type 7: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)


*Printed BRAND -/- = ODS CDR's (1x-52x, white, ??)*
Manufacturer : Plasmon
Code : 97m27s18f *unknown quality for me*
Recording Layer : Dye Type 8: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)


*Printed BRAND -/- = ZEUS CDR's (??, white/violet, ??)*
Manufacturer : unknown
Code : 97m16s06f *Moser Baer India Limited*
Recording Layer : Dye Type 6: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)


*Printed BRAND -/- = FUJIFILM CDR's (untested for me):
Manufacturer : Fuji Photo Film (very good reputation)
... (no additional data)