Which would you prefer?

[MackemX]

It would be interesting to see people's view on the subject of whether a program should be donationware or 'commercial' (LittleGuysWare)

please read through my posts in this thread
http://www.dvdrbase.com/showthread.php?t=37003

and my post HERE which is quoted below

NOTE : When I say commercial, I'm talking about the small development teams that would charge or ask for $5-$20 etc and not something like Pinnacle that has a larger team team behind it etc. Let's call it LittleGuysWare

If you had to give/pay $10 for a new application that you feel has potential after a testing a fully working trial, what would you think is the better option to support the development of the tool? What do you feel would be the best path to get better development and support for the program?

I have included options from a developers view also so pick whichever has the 2 options you would take

please try to give your reasons if you do vote as it would be interesting to hear other people's view on this

this may give you a better idea of what I'm asking about in this post HERE

you can guess my vote

but can I ask this? is this any different than asking for $9 and getting the same advanced version with guaranteed support but without the 'free' inferior version? I'm not saying DIFU isn't giving support, far from it but by charging we were obliged to give support and advice and as a user I would like that guarantee and fallback. Another thing you can't do with 'freeware' is complain or ask for your money back as you don't really have any rights even if you have donated, but as a paying customer you have your satisfaction rights etc. I have always said, charging for DS was a 'forced' donation but I accepted that I would have responsibilities to our users also. Of the 2 people I refunded only one person really ever felt conned but I feel it was only because he couldn't get it to work so I don't think we did anything wrong in charging for it as people got more for their 'donations'. The other refundee actually bought DS again after we released another version

it would be interesting as which would users would prefer?

if a program was half decent in it's workings, development and support and showed potential, would you rather donate $10 or buy the program for $10 if it was going to be from the same guy? (use DS for example). Personally I would buy it as like I say you 'should' get better security and satisfaction etc. Imagine all the issues we had with DS in the beginning. If DS was donationware, we could have easily took our time resolving issues as we had no obligation. Nobody could have said bo diddley if we did nothing, yet with the route we took, we faced all our issues and dealt with them and hopefully satisfied most by doing so. Even now we are offering support to non contributors when again we could make this a forum a little like DVD2One where you have to prove to be an owner to get our support

basically all I'm saying is that there was no difference whether people bought DS or donated when it was released as those who contributed got something in return. All those people who bought it, did actually donate in my eyes and helped develop it better and faster and those who didn't 'donate' didn't get a copy

 

[roadworker]

I prefer the way of MenuEdit.......free/small donation for the basic functions and pay for the full functionality.
People get the taste and pay if they need more...

 

[audi2honda]

I prefer commericial wear with a reasonable price $10 or so. Especially since I paid for DVDStripper and was disappointed to see it is free now because I'm thinking it won't get much development attention and support being free.

 

[SirQUK]

I prefer the way of MenuEdit.......free/small donation for the basic functions and pay for the full functionality.
People get the taste and pay if they need more...

I see your point roadworker dude, but isnt this the same as paying twice for the software?
I believe donators should get pre release access to the software and be able to get their opinions heard more than non donators, but ultimatley, in the real world, donate or buy, i can name only a handful of companiess with the type of support say BAO/DS supplies. Buying the software at least gurantees you the right to bitch about problems you have with the software And your bitching will also at least get a reply.
I do feel for the ppl who bought DS b4 it was made free due to the time restrictions both MackemX and TMG have. Perhaps they should get special access to other projects being worked on?

 

[MackemX]

@roadworker, crippleware is hmmmm in my eyes , good points and bad points as it teases but doesn't give a full feeling and can sometimes give the wrong impression of a program. I'm sure more would buy MenuEdit if they knew exactly how it worked. Fully working time trials are much better but that also has it's disadvantages of course from a developer's view. I've changed my initial post a little now to give a better idea of what I'm interested in

I'm also talking about programs that only have 1 or 2 team members for development and not huge software companies like Microsoft etc but the little guys

classing DVDStripper/MenuEdit etc as 'commercial' is OK but putting them in the same boat as Pinnacle etc is absolute crap. Like I mention above I'm talking about LittleGuysWare

@audi2honda, I can't answer that as it's probably what I'm trying to say in general. General Support for DS will remain along with the odd update but development etc has slowed right down

 

[MackemX]

@SirQUK,

I feel for them too but if I ever created something then they would get VIP treatment along with free copies

@ all,

I know a few freeware projects have proved to be great tools but imagine if some had been LittleGuyWare. What would DIF4U be like if he got a steady forced 'donation' to make the extra time/effort worth it?. His site get's 1,000's of hits and plenty of downloads but very few donations . With this motivation of getting more 'forced' donations a day then surely the program would be more like he visualises and grow much faster. Another good thing is that those who contribute get something for their faith instead of the 1,000's who would never dream of donating getting the same privileges. Even with the extra features on the VIP version, most will still use the free version slowing down developments

yeah some other freewares have limitations that can be unlocked by donating. I'd rather pay than donate as I'd expect more support/development for my contribution and as SirQUK mentions it gives you a right to bitch about it. We have some great freeware apps but how many freeware programs are there that get donations but offer very little support and updates or never get heard of again I wonder? How many freeware developers have sold out by offering their services or code for a fee?, so again I'm saying DIY and be your own boss

if you get paid enough then people will make time no matter what, but why bother putting that extra time/effort in for no reward apart from praise and a feel good factor?

Praise doesn't pay the bills now does it? and some people don't want to spend their free time developing just for the thrill factor . I try to get my thrills elsewhere

 

[MackemX]

let's look at it another way, say you were a songwriter and/or music lover what would you prefer people do?

• write a song for free and getting the odd donation but plenty of praise but not so much motivation from the donations and maybe release an album after a long time
  
• writing songs for someone else to release it and get to Number 1 and you get a small cut but have less control over the material that will be contained on the album
  
• writing/releasing a song and it selling well (as long as it's good enough) giving you the motivation to spend more time/effort to create new better material and complete the album a lot quicker

 

[dwmarqu]

I prefer commericial wear with a reasonable price $10 or so. Especially since I paid for DVDStripper and was disappointed to see it is free now because I'm thinking it won't get much development attention and support being free.

I agree with audi2honda. You charged a very reasonable price. Your app ROCKS and was worth every penny and more. I also was disappointed to see it was now free, but only because people are lazy and won't take the time to donate, which sucks for you.

I suggest charging, then emailing the software, the key was a hassle (but emailing may be a hassle for you). If people don't want to pay for it, they'll get it from someone who paid. I guess it would be a sort of "forced donation" to save the hassle of getting it somewhere else.

As for the expectation of enhancements, for $9 I got a deal and don't feel the right to expect you to bust your hump enhancing it. If you did, great. Just my opinion.

 

[pak2]

If the software in under development, then small forced donations seem most appropriate. The original DS fee system was about right. The user is supporting development and is given access to the results. The developer is motivated and obligated to perform. User support is in the form of software updates and forums.

Voluntary donations don't commit either side to anything and can actually demoralize the developer when nothing comes in (I offer recent posts by MackemX as evidence). "Purchase" fees carry the connotation of a buying a finished product with guaranteed performance, which is too much to ask for developmental software.

BTW, is this thread a philosophical discussion, or a negotiation? DS fees were dropped after you decided to scale back development. The primary frustration seemed to be lack of programming support. If going back to a fee system would keep meaningful development going on DS and MenuModder, then please propose it.

 

[zver]

I dont like donationware,freeware and such..I like nice product,dont care for price..You should have a price on your app that youre happy with..so you can update it,develop further....
For example if eac is paid app,might be updated more-who knows..
Now its free and developer every 6 months announcing it might be a last release

 

[The Postman]

I agree with Zver, if the software is good people buyed the software and the software can develop further.
1 example i buyed Newspro ,and i get a lifetime updates for it.
I have this prog for many years now.
So it can.
1 another example, I donate to DVDDVDR from ChatWalker.
This prog is free and develop further and further.
In april comes version 2.0 out,if this prog is free i don't no.
If its not i buyed it .
Because i used this prog about 2 years now,its one of the best progs
So for development stands many years to get software better and better.
Much hard working for these developers.
But when its ready for selling people buyed it.
They tested so as i for many months.
1 note more i believe if software with a lifetime updates/upgrades
its for consumers very attractive to buy it.
grtx The Postman

 

[MackemX]

@ dwmarqu, Hi and welcome to the forums
I guess freeware was the wrong route to take and if DS had been freeware to begin with then I doubt you would have got what we have now. I'm glad we never went freeware and everyone who bought it should be proud that you were part of helping it develop

@pak2, its more a discussion as I'm just interested in what people think about software and how it should develop and what they would do if they had the chance. I agree 'freeware' is great but I'd rather pay for it and get an overall better support and faster development and I guess you guys who posted above agree with me

some people can 'affford' to spend hours on a PC developing freeware and I applaud them but only a few will have the luxury of putting a few hours aside a day for support/development etc. It's a nice feeling to be appreciated for your efforts though as I felt it with my online guides and posts but that's about it

@zver, yep I agree. Freeware development/support rely heavily on the author's commitment to 'donating' his free time as they are not really obliged to lift a finger even if people donate. Surely this will have an effect on the speed that issues/features are updated. I'm not one who can 'donate' my time/efforts as I'd rather do other things in my 'free' time but if I had a small 'forced' contribution I'd make the time no matter what like I did before

@The Postman, DVD2DVDR is one of the great freeware apps but wouldn't it have developed so much faster if it had took the LittleGuysWare route? If you look at the larger freeware apps then it's also the mass of users that offer support etc as most have their own forums so they grow on this also. This will also be a great motivation for the author knowing that 1,000's use the app. I partially feel this as knowing a few people enjoy using DS & MM does give a feel good factor

 

[enick]

Unforturely nothing is really free in life, we all have to eat,put roof over our heads etc, I for one do not like part of the pie. Part free and if you want the really good functions pay or donate for it. Like buying a pig in the poke. Don't mind paying for the whole,if it is a worthwhile and useful program. Puts money in your pocket and also is a good motivator for further and better developments for the program. Just my thoughts

 

[Laz]

I prefer the way of MenuEdit.......free/small donation for the basic functions and pay for the full functionality.
People get the taste and pay if they need more...

Yep, agree Roady and exactly the reason why I had no problems paying only a £10 donation for SVCD2DVD on that basis.

 

[ibod]

Yep, agree Roady and exactly the reason why I had no problems paying only a £10 donation for SVCD2DVD on that basis.

I'm of this mind too... svcd2dvd/menuedit, does zoomplayer count too?

I'm happy to contribute and feel like I'm getting something extra in return for my support.
DS going free was disappointing. Next update, change it back!

 

[Gil T Pleasure]

I prefer commericial wear with a reasonable price $10 or so. Especially since I paid for DVDStripper and was disappointed to see it is free now because I'm thinking it won't get much development attention and support being free.

Ditto.

 

[MackemX]

........me 3