New AMD Barebones Advice

[dx]

Yeah, now that I look at the case design the front fan placement will be perfect for cooling the HDD's. Now the only problem I might have (Owners of the A7N8X-E help!) is that the setup of the CPU socket is so close to the capacitors that large heatsinks are said to either not fit or take some real work to get to fit.

Yeah it's a bit tight, but be patient and you will get it in there. Probably the only difficulty I had with the board. Mind you, I just went with the stock heatsink (it's base is mostly copper) and a quiet but high volume 80mm fan (with a 60mm to 80 mm adapter). Even with the most demanding games I average in the mid 40's (Celcius) with my Athlon 3200+.

Hmmm... I wonder what's the crappiest vid card I can run on this board.

Be careful about going too crappy. Your vid card is very important. You have already built a nice system... stay the course and get something that won't hold your system back. Personally I went with an Saphire Radeon ATI 9800Pro for $260. It was worth every penny when I can play games, even full tilt, without slow frame rates.

 

[LTR12101B]

With video cards, don't make the mistake of going "in the middle" - if you can't get one that will REALLY last, then get one that you EXPECT to replace.

Eg. Bottom end, "expect to replace"
Nvidia Geforce 2/2MX - should be cheap, and a damn fine workhorse - Nvidia Drivers use the T&L engine for accelating "point sprites" - often used for impact dust.
ATI Radeon/Radeon 7x00

Good, "old guard" cards:
Nvidia Geforce 4 Ti4200 - a one time winner that's still good in DX8
ATI Radeon 8500 (and slower, LE) - once great, now cheap - similar class to the 9000-9200 actually.

Midrange:
Nvidia FX5600-5700
ATI Radeon 9500-9600


One observation - with Nvidia, any followinw letters should be considered BAD unless you know otherwise - eg. MX = cutdown or crippled, or even not really what it says (the Geforce 4MX is more like a Geforce 2). XT = slower, Ultra = faster, Ti (Titanium) = normal for Geforce 4

With ATI, LE and SE are slower, XT is faster

 

[tredragon]

Here's the thing though... I don't play squat for PC games. I know, I know... they are way superior to console games... just not my thing right now. Might play Tiger Woods 04 via broadband with my buddy in Florida but that's all the interest I have. Heck my Tseng has been fine (because it displays something to the monitor, period.) except I can't watch DVD's (which I only do when reauthoring, I don't "watch" DVD's on the PC... I have a TV and DVD player for that ). I dunno... basically what I'm getting at is that at least for now I need something that I can use to display anything so I can setup and test all of my stuff.

Edit:
found the ATI 9200 for a liveable price(s) but which mfgr. to go with? NewEgg has the Sapphire 64MB 9200 for $58 shipped here, the Gigabyte 128 for $67 Shipped here, and the Sapphire 128 for $68 shipped here. Hell they even have the Sapphire 256 for $82 shipped here! Sounds like this card would do me well for some time. What do you guys think? I might be able to swindle another $60-90outta myself.

 

[catachresis]

ATI 91/9200 is great for desktop apps. I'm personally getting sick of the smugness exuded by ATI fan-boys, and I even recently considered getting an NVidia replacement. But the 2d resolution of ATI cards is so clean and clear -- that, more than anything else, dissuaded me from attempting another NVidia card.

 

[Duracell]

... Oh, and this is my first PC to build myself so anyone (ahem... duracel) familiar with the A7N8X-E could really help me out.

i don't have the "-E" model but did read the related manual even now; some things to be noted:

- place your RAM sticks in DIMM_A1 and DIMM_B1 sockets

- if you have to set up PCI cards use Slot5 in first priority, if you have a second PCI card use Slot4 for it; avoid using the other slots because they sharing their resources (hard bonded);

- like DX and Roadworker told, don't install nVIDIA's IDE drivers (included in the nForce driver package); well, install the latest package but deselect the IDE driver installation;

 

[tredragon]

I should probably try to find a nice step by step tutorial on setting this board up. Perhaps some of the overclocker forums have some good stuff to go by.

So do you guys think that the Radeon 9200 will suffice for my needs? Again, which manufacturer should I go with?

 

[LTR12101B]

256Mb on a card like that would ba a waste - in fact, not sure that there's a convincing case for 256Mb on ANY video card yet.

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html - Good comparison test - though the FBUCKS score is controversial, as it ignores capability.
I was GOING to say that FBUCKS at 4x FSAA and 8x Aniso gave a more representative "cheap performance" result, with the R9700 (performance justifying a middle-high price) at the top, but immediately following it is the FX5200 (performance too low for good DX9 gaming, but the cheapest DX9 card you can get).

The only way to really get a useful "FBUCKS" style scoring, would be to apply a correction factor (downward in BOTH cases) for frame rates too low to be considered enjoyable, and more than realistically needed.

Tho other tests are scored normally - one thing that does come out - the R9200/128 only slightly outscores or just equals the R9200/64, and they are usually beaten by the older R8500 - if you can get a FULL (not LE) version at a cheaper price, worth having, since there isn't much difference between the 8500 and 9000-9200 range.


To be honest, if you don't care about gaming, a 7000-series Radoen would do, or an original Radeon All-in-Wonder if you fancy video capture.

 

[tredragon]

So an 8500 full would be as good pretty much as the 9200? I don't mind upgrading within a year because I'll spend $200 on a 9700 or 9600 or whatever but just not right now. Besides, I need a better card in this PC and the 8500/9200 would work well I think once I upgrade my "Monster".

Edit: what do you think of this deal: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-236R&type=Refurbish&section=2 Says there is a 3 year limited manufacturer warranty so I suppose I wouldn't be as leary... that's a damn good card if it keeps working. Then there is this one http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-131-199&depa=1 but what is "evil commando" model? Seems cheap or is powercolor just a crappy mfgr?

 

[catachresis]

1. As for the Sapphire 9700, $200 is a decent price, but the 9800 (significant improvement and current high mark - 9850 is just a refresh - is going for $238).

2. PowerColour is okay, but Sapphire tends to be ranked higher. Sapphire and ATI share fabricators, so Sapp cards tend to be like less pricey but otherwise identical. If you can hang loose, you'll see a Sapp 9800 for around $230 in the next 10 days.

 

[tredragon]

I think I'll get a 9000pro for now. The 8500 is hard to find and I can get the 9000pro for so cheap that for now it will do well. Then I'll pop this Tseng into my old Compaq (which has onboard SIS VGA from like 1999) and put the 9000pro into this PC, and get a 9700 or 9800.

 

[tredragon]

I could sure use help now that most of the parts are here. The board didn't seem to come with any fasteners and the case only came with 5 of the short brass chassis fastener thingys (technical term). I took my old compaq apart but of course, in their infinite wisdom the mobo was just bolted to the case's raised bolt holes. There's nothing like needing something small and silly when you're going crazy to set something up.

I suppose Staples will have something along these lines, or else there is a PC place right next to it, which is probably a better idea now that I think of it.

 

[LTR12101B]

Brass screw in posts? - Great, so much better than the naff clip-ins that never seem very secure, and half the time don't hold the screw either.

Normally the brass posts are supplemented by plastic ones the slide into keyholes.
Offer up, and choose the best available, a reasonable spread, with a preference for any areas subject to loading.

If you have plenty of fasteners, you will have trouble finding usable matching holes.
If you have plenty of matching holes, you will have far fewer fasteners than you are comfortable with.

For screw-in brass posts, a nut spinner is ideal, and be sure they are tight - I've had them unscrew instead of the board fixing screw, and that is a REAL PAIN!

 

[tredragon]

there were 5 brass riser posts and 5 platic ones that screw into the chassis and then snap into the mb. For now this will do fine. Jesus God there are so many power wires from the PSU. I've just finished hooking everything up except the front audio. The Asus book's diagram and the connectors don't correspond completely and I'm a little too dumb to figure it out. There are like 8 connections from the front and the board has fewer it seems, or less R/L channels. I dunno but I'm not concerned with it.

Ordered a 9000Pro today for $73 shipped. That will do me until I get the urge to go high end and get the 9800 AIW Pro.

Also found out that my stepping is super locked. FSB is all I can do. Will try to find a suitable stepping for multiplier unlock because otherwise you have to convert it to Athlon XP Mobile and use some software to up the multiplier, and even so it's not said to work well or at all with nForce2 boards.

Stole the heatsink/fan from my old compaq for now just to have something on the chip. My volcano 12 should be here end of the week I hope.

 

[ipdave]

Athlon 64 Combo - FIC K8-800T K8T800 Motherboard / AMD Athlon 64 3000+ OEM from mcglen.com for $335 ... will run WinXP 32 bit until 64 bit beta is finalized, even runs faster than XP, esp with the extra cpu instructions in the new CPU chip.... This is to be my moa(m)b bomb!

 

[LTR12101B]

Also found out that my stepping is super locked. FSB is all I can do. Will try to find a suitable stepping for multiplier unlock because otherwise you have to convert it to Athlon XP Mobile and use some software to up the multiplier, and even so it's not said to work well or at all with nForce2 boards.

Unless you're into serious overclocking for the purposes of brandishing benchmark figures, I'd just call it good if you can turn an 11x166 2500+ Barton, into an 11x200 3200+ with a touch more volts - and if it's not stable at 1.9v (a voltage many seem to use happily), then back the FSB off a little.

If it's 100% good at stock volts or only a little over (need to run a barrage of Prime95 without overheat or error), then if memory and board can take it, push on above 200 ... 220 would represent about the best speed achieved for that CPU, and should be within the reach of the chipset and PC3200 RAM.

There are only two reasons you need an unlocked multiplier:
1. If the multiplier needs to be lowered to achieve optimum (high) FSB
2. If you've run out of FSB, and still have plenty of OC left in the CPU

2200 real MHz, 3200+ speed is a realistic target for a 2500+, and within the maximum ranges achieved - not so much an overclock to be proud of, as the performance of a more expensive CPU from the one at the bottom of it's range - don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to push the voltage and fans to the pain barrier, but I'm always up for a bit of free extra speed.


The golden overclocking rule is GENTLY, bit by bit, test and adjust.

 

[tredragon]

I agree LTR. I was just kinda dreaming of getting a XPB with the right stepping to fool with it. It's kinda addicting, ya know... reading the OC forums and seeing what people are getting out of their setups. Besides, I went for most of the goodies here so I guess I got myself in the habit already of wanting the higher end of the spectrum. Then again, to a lot of people the system I'm building is probably low to mid range. I could have cut a lot more corners than what I did is my point I guess. I think I'll up the FSB little by little, run Prime95 and such and see where I can get to. chances are I will be so happy with the increased performance over both the K6II and the slower K7 that I'll be satisfied right off the bat.

 

[tredragon]

and just think... all of this started because I wanted to burn DVD's quicker

Side note: Got my Ritek G04 -R's today. Now if only I had a vid card Already swapped drives to the new case.

 

[tredragon]

System is up. XP SP1A installed and all updates. See below for performance as of now. Have 120MM blowhole that I put in (exhaust), the 80MM led window fan (intake), and the PSU has two fans as well. Will look into getting as much as possible. Speed hasn't blown me away yet. Sitting here watching DVD Shrink take over an hour to encode the Matrix.

 

[LTR12101B]

You got XP3200+ out of it, I see - next step is to see just how much the CPU, chipset and DDR will take ... 210, 220 - from what I read, 220 MHz FSB is about the max that a good Nforce2 will handle. An extra 10MHz would be as good as an extra 0.5 on the multiplier.

 

[tredragon]

The comment about the Matrix taking over an hour to encode... I'm still a novice at this but I noticed that it has the "Main Movie" (file of 2:16:00) about 4 times. The output was still so large that it couldn't have been compressed much. I deselected all but the first main movie and it's going to take about 10 minutes.

I heard that you could step the FSB up in detailed increments... but in BIOS the run of the mill options are only available (100,133,166,200). I'll have to do some more research on this one. My temps are so low right now even under load that I want to push the envelope.