New AMD Barebones Advice

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tredragon

Member
Yep, it's another one.

I'm considering building a barebones system for authoring CD's/DVD's and little else. I like my system now for everyday use and don't want to go all out with a decked system for everything... especially since I can't probably get squat for this system nowadays. Here are my "bullets" of importance:
  • I currently run a AMD 800MHZ with 384PC133 and twin 20GB HDD's. Tseng labs (circa 1997) vid card and on board sound... I can picture you guys cringing as you read this!
  • I want something that is night and day better than this system when it comes to my CD/DVD needs. I'm not into watching DVD's on the PC other than as a guide when reauthoring so no fancy vid cards for me. Anything that will half-ass display a DVD (ie. ATI 64MB) will do.
  • I am cheap (read: CCCHHHEEEAAAPPP). I am looking at spending in the hundreds, and not many at that. I've priced several $300-$400 systems so far and that's right where I want to be. Remember, this is just a barebones system... I'll be keeping this system which has served all of my needs well so far.

I was looking at simple systems like the Tbred 1700 (I hear they overclock well) on an Asus A7N8X with 512DDR2700, 80GB Maxtor 7200 UDMA 133, and ATI 7000 64MB DDR. Remember I have a DVDRW/CDRW combo drive as well as another CDRW drive and everything else I need pretty much. I'm wondering though if the A7N8X is overkill for the Tbred... should I spring for a Barton? I know the 80GB HDD is small to most of you but I just need to be able to have my current DVD/CD projects stored and then I erase them once success has come to me. Besides, HDD's aren't exactly hard to add on.

I dunno. I'm no PC genius but as I said I want something that will outperform this system (not too hard to accomplish) by leaps and bounds but yet is cheap, but yet has good components. I don't want much huh? :D
 
Duracell

Duracell

1
it seems you know what you want to get; Why looking for a barebone? Why making compromises? grab a PC knowledged friend by the hand and configure your "dream system" at an online store or local store; i'm sure you will find a boy who is knowledged enough to set up a PC and install OS and apps;

Greetings from
Duracell
 
L

LTR12101B

1
You'll be lucky to find a TBred1700.

The Duron 1600 (and MAYBE 1800) seem to be getting decent overclocks, thhough the smaller cache can put them at a disadvantage -though in some cases, the cache can be re-enabled by bridgemodding

Two things that have happened lately though:

1. Most current-issue AMD CPU's are now multiplier locked.
2. The new coating makes bridge-modding much more difficult, and more risky, but not impossible

The Barton 2500+ (although multiplier locked) can normally be FSB overclocked - to 3000+ speed at 200FSB - assuming you use DDR400 (PC3200) memory

I'm toying with the idea of a real Cheap Sis Motherboard (under £25 and does 200FSB / DDR400), plus one of these super-Durons overclocked as much as it'll take (certainly from 133FSB to 166FSB) - I recckon a 1600, not excessively abused (2000MHz) - would be close to a 2400+ (on 1.5v stock, or 1.65v at most)

With good cooling, and rather more voltage abuse, people have got 2500MHz out of them, that seems to be tops - at 2400MHz (200FSB), that should be close to 2800+ level
 
C

catachresis

1
LTR12101B's advice is pretty sound, although prices are getting so low that I can't imagine you couldn't get a full-fledged Athlon XP 2500+ Barton, a decent Nforce 2 or Via KT600 (I think) mobo and 2x 256 megs of ram for around 300-400. Putting the computer together these days is verrrrry easy. Folks here can help, and there are super-friendly and knowledgable people at amdforums.com.

Get some prices on parts: proc, mobo, mems. Start from there.
 
T

tredragon

Member
Well as I said, I'm no genius so overclocking will be a possibility but not something I've done before. I guess I just threw that in there as a justification for going with a slower chip. I've priced out barebones assembled and also the parts and like I said, for something in the 2.0GHZ range with 512DDR, 80-120GB HDD, ATI 64-128DDR and the case... it's $400 give or take a few bucks. I will keep checking Newegg though. Anything to look out for though? Not bought much used hardware before besides this system from a great friend who prepped it all up for me as I waited.
 
C

catachresis

1
The refurb gear at Newegg is not 'used' per se. It was returned to newegg and then validated/ and or /refitted by the manufacturer. It will have Newegg's 15 day guarantee in addition to a warrantee from the manufacturer. You get it in the mail and check that it works ASAP. If you're not satisfied with something specific, you contact Newegg for a RMA.

As I said, you should start with a mobo and then get the processor and the memory. This is unless you've got to buy a new case, in which case, that's what you start with (and pay attention to the power supply -- you'll want 350w to 400w minimum). As far as new amd mobos go, you'll want a name-branded via kt600 or nvdia nforce2 board. PM me if you have some quick question. Good luck (but, remember, this is all mean to be fun).
 
T

tredragon

Member
Well I ended up getting the Asus NFORCE2 A7N8X-E DELUXE (dual channel DDR support, S-ATA, etc.), an AMD XP Barton 2500+ (per LTR12101B's info) and Corsair Twinx-512 PC-3200DDR. Had that mobo that catachresis linked all ready to buy, actually I had it, the AMD XPB, and some Corsair Twinx PC-3700 ordered... but I decided to cancel the order and get the board with dual DDR support and step down to PC-3200. Spent about $300 shipped on it all. Not bad. Now I will have to get a case though and also want a Maxtor S-ATA 80GB and probably an ATI 128MB card. I was planning on 400W PS but wasn't sure if there was a good case that came with a reliable PS anyone knows about. Not looking at spending a bundle just want a good PS and front USB.

I did some homework and I'm happy to have ordered what I did, so far;)
 
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L

LTR12101B

1
And a flaming good heatsink, especially if you want to overclock.

http://www.spire-coolers.com/fcc.asp?ProdID=105 - this is ACE, might not be the true overclockers dream, but it's a quiet cooler with reasonable punch.

The one my friend has, and is VERY happpy with, is actually the Falcon Rock model
http://www.spire-coolers.com/fcc.asp?ProdID=86
Not rated as quiet as the Whisper Rock, but still pretty good

Most HSF's in this shape and style have similar performance - Good cooling, and quiet, thanks to the 80mm fan - 60mm fans scream like hell to give a decent airflow (Delta Screamer, anyoune)

My own HSF is another reasonably quiet one, the Thermosonic V60-4210 (also available with Delta Screamer fan, which it carries with less noise than most other heatsinks).

The fly in the ointment with the Barton over the T-Bred, is the extra cache DOES mean more heat to get rid of, though the larger core means it couples the heat quite well to the heatsink.

With a good heatsink, and maybe a small voltage boost, the 2500+ should push to 200FSB (but best do do that in 2 or 3 steps, and evaluate temperature/stability at FSBs between 166 and 200) - that actually exemplifies the overclocker's normal methods.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=gethowto&howtoID=43 - this goes through a reasonable example

As you will be running RAM within ratings, stock RAM voltage should do fine.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlonxp-3000.html
The Barton 2500+ is actually clocked at 1833 (166x11)
The 2800+ is clocked at 2083 (166x12.5) - or 189x11
The 3000+ at 2167 (166x13) -
The 3200+ at 2200 (200x11) ... what do you get if an overclocked 2500+ is stable at 200FSB ? - give it an extra 0.1v and hope, or pull the clock speed down a fraction - and if the multiplier is NOT locked, then try 200 X 10 or 10.5 if it won't hold 200x11
 
C

catachresis

1
It all looks good Tre. Congratulations.

LTR's suggestions seem good here. Take care in getting a power supply. Have you thought about Fortrons? I just got a refurbished Vantec 520w from svccompucycle for $79.00.

Pc3200 mems should be just fine. 200 is the magic number.
 
dx

dx

1
tredragon said:
Well I ended up getting the Asus NFORCE2 A7N8X-E DELUXE
Click to expand...
Good choice bud! I've had one for 2 months now and not a single problem. Needs a little tweaking though.

So when you are ready for installation, let me know. There are some tricks to the BIOS, the SATA, and the nForce drivers that will be an improvement over the ones on the ASUS CD. In fact, the SATA driver on the CD is known to be buggy. Either post here or PM me. ;)
 
FortiTude

FortiTude

1
i'm using the whisperrock IV on my 3000+ (not overclocked) and it really kicks ass ...
socket temp:
idle 40 degree Celsius and high load 50 degree,
cpu diode is both in idle and under high load at about 50 degree
i can really recommend this one (i got it for 13.5 euros in a german shop, quite cheap for such a cooler)
and the board is a good choice too, the onboard sound (soundstorm) rocks
i got almost the same (a7n8x deluxe rev2): no gbit lan (two 100mbit) and no wifi slot
only some little probs with the ide driver, do as dx suggested ...
forti
 
T

tredragon

Member
Well I'm not doing anything about a heatsink just yet. I did about 3 hours of research and test studies last night. I'll run at labeled speed for now and then get a heatsink, check temps across the board and then look into overclocking.

I did, however, purchase an Antec 400W PS today. 3.3v and 5v combined 240W. That's pretty damn good. Supposed to be one of the best from what I read on overclocking forums. Now it's time for a case. Suppose I can get a cheap one since I have a good PS. Any ideas?
 
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L

LTR12101B

1
Nice mobo - are you going for a SATA Hard Disk?
Even if you have a large ATA100/133 HD, I'd put it on a SATA converter, as then you could use two optical drives, each one as master on each of the standard IDE ports.

I'd just love to see a pair of WD RAPTORS in SATA RAID though, the speed would be insane - at only 35Gb each though, the capacity would be unimpressive for the price

http://www.hardavenue.com/reviews/wdraptor741.shtml - So they've got them up to 74Gb now - this astonishing 10,000 rpm drive!
http://www.hardavenue.com/reviews/wdraptor742.shtml - but just look at the price per Gb - OUCH!

So there you have it, the RAPTOR - horrifyingly expensive, demonically hot and insanely quick (though Winmark seems to prefer the big Maxtor)
Not entirely a serious suggestion - as a couple of Maxtor 80Gb SATA drives in RAID would be a lot cheaper, and still damn fast.

I have an 80Gb ATA133 Maxtor (2Mb cache version) and it's pretty good, though some say they do NOT like heavy thrashing (if a system leans constantly on the swapfile), then they show an increased rate of early failure
 
T

tredragon

Member
I have the Maxtor S-ATA 80GB 8mb cache coming to me as we speak. Could use help with the S-ATA controller setup though... greek to me.

I bought the Antec 400W PS as the combined 3.3v and 5v of 240W which is right up there.

The case is this one which I think will look OK with my white burners. I wanted black but not anything with silver drive covers or anything. In hindsight I should have gotten an Antec case/PSU 400-450W and had a window put in (some vendors do that for $15 or so). The case comes with a neon window fan that I'll probably just use until I OC and then go with some good fans.

Got a thermaltake 120MM fan for rear exhaust and will probably upgrade the side window fan as well as put in a 120MM blowhole fan too.

Heatsink... Thermalright 700/800/900 series look good to me but then again the Extreme Volcano 12 scored well at dan's data. I'm kinda leary about hanging either of these large behemoths from a clip on the mobo though. The bolt-in type are much easier on the nerves but I dunno. I don't "commute to compute" very much (that was cheesy) so...

Now I just need a vid card. At least a crappy one to test/setup the system. Maybe I can pull this beautiful Tseng 2MB out and use it for now.

Oh, and this is my first PC to build myself so anyone (ahem... duracel) familiar with the A7N8X-E could really help me out. I'm not migrating, fresh install of... well that's another thing. Have XP Pro and Win2K (which I run here and have had no problems whatsoever with, love the simplicity). I just fear that XP's "pretty features" will be too much of a hog. I don't like all of that nonsense. Heck, I was running NT4.0 on my compaq (AMD K6II @ 485, 160MB RAM, 8GB HDD) and loving it for it's stability.
 
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catachresis

1
Video cards. . . there's a bunch of nice ones at Newegg's refurb shop at the moment (literally) they'll all be gone in eight hours:
http://www.dvdrbase.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=209967

ATI All-In-Wonder RADEON 9600 PRO 128MB DDR 8X AGP - $156.95
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductdesc.asp?description=14-102-316R&depa=99&type=Refurbish

9600 Pro - POWERCOLOR RADEON 9600PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "R96-C3G(Radeon9600 Pro EZ version)" -RETAIL $138.00

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-131-221&catalog=48&depa=0
 
L

LTR12101B

1
Looks like good provision for front fans too, in a position to direct-cool the HD.

Since the SATA controller is RAID, and you're using it single drive, it must be in non-raid (often called JBOD) mode. If the BIOS does not explicitly have a mention of SATA in the boot order, it may be covered under "SCSI" - since most extra drive controllers seem to appear that way.

You might find the motherboard will not support a really old AGP card, such as an old AGP 1.0 using 3.3v
 
T

tredragon

Member
I bought the Thermaltake Extreme Volcano 12 last night. Thank god for State Income Tax Returns! $31 free shipping from censuspc.com. This HSF got some damn good scores and for the price you can hardly go wrong. It's said to be more liveable noise-wise than the monster SLK's from thermalright with their Delta screamer-finger-munchers. I was looking at the Thermal Transtech NH-2 heatpipe cooler but frostytech gave it a poor score although dansdata had it right up there. Frostytech's methods looked to be more sound though so I had to give up.

Yeah, now that I look at the case design the front fan placement will be perfect for cooling the HDD's. Now the only problem I might have (Owners of the A7N8X-E help!) is that the setup of the CPU socket is so close to the capacitors that large heatsinks are said to either not fit or take some real work to get to fit. I'm hoping against hope that it goes in without a hitch. I was reading some really great stuff on this board and it's bios features though. The sound is supposed to be superb and the dual LAN, S-ATA, needless to say I'm thoroughly pleased so far without having even put it all together yet. I may add another S-ATA drive to go RAID but for now this will be fine. Vid cards... I don't really have that kind of cash right now as I'm about $600 into this PC already. I had to do some real creative budgeting to get this far. Hmmm... I wonder what's the crappiest vid card I can run on this board.
 
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