It Was Not Ultrabuffer!!!
Ok people, attention here:
I have been running hours of tests with Nero 6.3.0 and can 100% CONFIRM the following:
There is a memory management BUG, in Nero (Tested 6.3.0 /6.2.8 / 5.5.10.54) OR IN Auto-Protect-Norton Antivirus 2004 Professional when both are working at the same time. It is impossible for me to know at the momment which of these 2 is the source of the problem.
Problem description:
There is an extremely high memory use (physical RAM) when working in Nero and NAV 2004 Auto-Protect is ENABLED. This is notorious when working with large files (tested with 700MB files and up, from various types).
This abnormal memory use is so huge that the system becomes very unresponsive when the available memory drops under the 200MB limit.
This problem can be unique to the Liteon LDW-811S OR NOT, I have not tested with another drive yet. I will test with my old Liteon LTR-24102B and post later.
I would like to make a call for others to run these easy test for we can confirm if this is a general issue or a particular problem for this combination of hardware+software.
Sympthoms and a sure and easy way to reproduce the problem:
1. For having a clean test enviroment it is recommended to resrart Windows and close all the background applications, exept NAV.
2. Be sure that NAV Auto-Protect is active and running.
3. Open Task manager
4. In the Performance Tab look under Physical Memory and note how much available memory you have (I use to have arround 655304K (650M, arround 60% of all my physical memory) when I have just started Windows).
5. Open Nero
6. Make a new compilation. It can be CD or DVD. I have used "No multisession" in all the tests. All the other compilation options have been left as default.
7. Put some files in the compilation (big files spot the problem easier) I use files of 700MB and up, if you are using a CD put a single 700MB file, it is enough.
8. Go to "burn compilation" and in the "burn" tab choose between any of the options that are there, YOU DON'T NEED TO BURN A DISC FOR TESTING THIS, the problem is visible using "Determine Maximun Speed", "Simulation" or "write". It doesn't matter if you use "Track at once" or "Disk at once". You can use any speed that you like, I use to test with the hightest one, but it is the same even at 8X (CD) and 2X (DVD).
9. Click BURN and have an eye in the "Available" value in the Task manager.
10. Here is where you can spot the problem:
- If NAV 2004 Auto-Protect is enabled: You will see how the available physical memory starts to drop dramatically and continuosly, becoming the situation very critical after some time (in my case it use to drop until I am left only with 190MB of RAM free). This process is not inmediate, it is a secuential droping that goes hand to hand with the Nero work %. You will notice that when Nero is ready "burning", "simulating" or "determining maximun speed" the huge memory use will be released and available memory will come back to a normal level. If you are testing with a DVD compilation with more than one file, you will notice that the memory is released inmediatly after Nero is ready working with each file, and the process starts again (available memory level drop) with the next file, and so on until Nero finishes the job.
- If NAV 2004 Auto-Protect is disabled: You will see how the available phisycal memory stays steady without any abrupt changes. In my system the available counter stays constant arround 620-630MB. THIS INDICATES THE CORRECT WAY TO WORK FOR ANY PROGRAM that is behaving ok.
This is my relevant system configuration:
-Asus P4C800 Deluxe board (Last BIOS)
-Intel P4 3Ghz Hyper Threading enabled.
-1GB Corsair Twinx DDR400 CAS2 RAM memory (2x512MB)
-Hercules ATI Radeon 9800 PRO 128MB with official Catalyst 3.9
-120GB Western Digital P-ATA/100 Hard Disk
-Liteon LDW-811S DVDRW burner HS0E firmware (last)
-Windows XP Pro SP-1 english totally updated (Note: I am not on SP-1a, I preffer SP-1 for the MS Java virtual machine, but this must not have anything to do with this issue).
-Nero version: 6.3.0, 6.2.8 and 5.5.10.54. Tried with all these options without any changes in the test results:
*Ultra buffer: Auto
*Ultra Buffer: Manual - 80MB (this is the default in manual mode)
*In compilation options / Misc: "Cache files from disk and network" On and OFF, "Cache files smaller than" On and OFF
-NAV: NAV 2004 Professional totally updated (19 dic 2003). Note: For updating totally NAV you must run LivUpdate Manually, restart the machine and run it again, this process must be done several times until you get the "Your product is up to date" message.
-NAV Autoprotect options have been tested with different configurations without any changes to the test results:
*The defaults: Comprehensive file scanning
*Scan files using Smartscan: The extension MP* was deleted and none of the files been tested were inside the extension list, with this they suposse to not been scanned by NAV.
*Scan compressed archives was ON.
-Open programs when screenshoots were taken:
*NAV (in tray) Auto protect ON
*Task Manager
*FreeRamXP 1.40 Pro (just for showing free memory available in a graphical way, the problem happens with this program running or not, it doesn't affect).
Tests run:
With DVD-R / DVD+R:
Disc: Fortis DVD-R 2X, Ricoh DVD+R 4X
ISO Compilation
Determine maximun speed at 4X
Simulation at 4X
Write at 2X
File types: 700MB and up. AVI, MPG, GHO (ghost images)
CD-R:
Discs: 700MB CD-R
ISO Compilation DAO / TAO
Determine Maximun speed at 40X
Simulaation at 40X and 8X
Write at 40X and 8X
Facts:
1. The speed in what you are burning or simulating doesn't matter.
2. It doesn't matter if test is done in DAO or TAO.
3. ALWAYS making the test with NAV Autoprotect DISABLED from the tasktray (right click in NAV tasktray icon / Disable Auto-Protect solved the problem, presenteing normal memory use.
4. CPU use is not affected, neither Nero's or another program's memory use in the Task Manager Processes page.
I hope more pepole can run some of these tests and post here. This is of great interest because both programs are quite popular.
Here I have posted some screenshoots of the situation at different test levels.
Thank you for your collaboration.
Ok people, attention here:
I have been running hours of tests with Nero 6.3.0 and can 100% CONFIRM the following:
There is a memory management BUG, in Nero (Tested 6.3.0 /6.2.8 / 5.5.10.54) OR IN Auto-Protect-Norton Antivirus 2004 Professional when both are working at the same time. It is impossible for me to know at the momment which of these 2 is the source of the problem.
Problem description:
There is an extremely high memory use (physical RAM) when working in Nero and NAV 2004 Auto-Protect is ENABLED. This is notorious when working with large files (tested with 700MB files and up, from various types).
This abnormal memory use is so huge that the system becomes very unresponsive when the available memory drops under the 200MB limit.
This problem can be unique to the Liteon LDW-811S OR NOT, I have not tested with another drive yet. I will test with my old Liteon LTR-24102B and post later.
I would like to make a call for others to run these easy test for we can confirm if this is a general issue or a particular problem for this combination of hardware+software.
Sympthoms and a sure and easy way to reproduce the problem:
1. For having a clean test enviroment it is recommended to resrart Windows and close all the background applications, exept NAV.
2. Be sure that NAV Auto-Protect is active and running.
3. Open Task manager
4. In the Performance Tab look under Physical Memory and note how much available memory you have (I use to have arround 655304K (650M, arround 60% of all my physical memory) when I have just started Windows).
5. Open Nero
6. Make a new compilation. It can be CD or DVD. I have used "No multisession" in all the tests. All the other compilation options have been left as default.
7. Put some files in the compilation (big files spot the problem easier) I use files of 700MB and up, if you are using a CD put a single 700MB file, it is enough.
8. Go to "burn compilation" and in the "burn" tab choose between any of the options that are there, YOU DON'T NEED TO BURN A DISC FOR TESTING THIS, the problem is visible using "Determine Maximun Speed", "Simulation" or "write". It doesn't matter if you use "Track at once" or "Disk at once". You can use any speed that you like, I use to test with the hightest one, but it is the same even at 8X (CD) and 2X (DVD).
9. Click BURN and have an eye in the "Available" value in the Task manager.
10. Here is where you can spot the problem:
- If NAV 2004 Auto-Protect is enabled: You will see how the available physical memory starts to drop dramatically and continuosly, becoming the situation very critical after some time (in my case it use to drop until I am left only with 190MB of RAM free). This process is not inmediate, it is a secuential droping that goes hand to hand with the Nero work %. You will notice that when Nero is ready "burning", "simulating" or "determining maximun speed" the huge memory use will be released and available memory will come back to a normal level. If you are testing with a DVD compilation with more than one file, you will notice that the memory is released inmediatly after Nero is ready working with each file, and the process starts again (available memory level drop) with the next file, and so on until Nero finishes the job.
- If NAV 2004 Auto-Protect is disabled: You will see how the available phisycal memory stays steady without any abrupt changes. In my system the available counter stays constant arround 620-630MB. THIS INDICATES THE CORRECT WAY TO WORK FOR ANY PROGRAM that is behaving ok.
This is my relevant system configuration:
-Asus P4C800 Deluxe board (Last BIOS)
-Intel P4 3Ghz Hyper Threading enabled.
-1GB Corsair Twinx DDR400 CAS2 RAM memory (2x512MB)
-Hercules ATI Radeon 9800 PRO 128MB with official Catalyst 3.9
-120GB Western Digital P-ATA/100 Hard Disk
-Liteon LDW-811S DVDRW burner HS0E firmware (last)
-Windows XP Pro SP-1 english totally updated (Note: I am not on SP-1a, I preffer SP-1 for the MS Java virtual machine, but this must not have anything to do with this issue).
-Nero version: 6.3.0, 6.2.8 and 5.5.10.54. Tried with all these options without any changes in the test results:
*Ultra buffer: Auto
*Ultra Buffer: Manual - 80MB (this is the default in manual mode)
*In compilation options / Misc: "Cache files from disk and network" On and OFF, "Cache files smaller than" On and OFF
-NAV: NAV 2004 Professional totally updated (19 dic 2003). Note: For updating totally NAV you must run LivUpdate Manually, restart the machine and run it again, this process must be done several times until you get the "Your product is up to date" message.
-NAV Autoprotect options have been tested with different configurations without any changes to the test results:
*The defaults: Comprehensive file scanning
*Scan files using Smartscan: The extension MP* was deleted and none of the files been tested were inside the extension list, with this they suposse to not been scanned by NAV.
*Scan compressed archives was ON.
-Open programs when screenshoots were taken:
*NAV (in tray) Auto protect ON
*Task Manager
*FreeRamXP 1.40 Pro (just for showing free memory available in a graphical way, the problem happens with this program running or not, it doesn't affect).
Tests run:
With DVD-R / DVD+R:
Disc: Fortis DVD-R 2X, Ricoh DVD+R 4X
ISO Compilation
Determine maximun speed at 4X
Simulation at 4X
Write at 2X
File types: 700MB and up. AVI, MPG, GHO (ghost images)
CD-R:
Discs: 700MB CD-R
ISO Compilation DAO / TAO
Determine Maximun speed at 40X
Simulaation at 40X and 8X
Write at 40X and 8X
Facts:
1. The speed in what you are burning or simulating doesn't matter.
2. It doesn't matter if test is done in DAO or TAO.
3. ALWAYS making the test with NAV Autoprotect DISABLED from the tasktray (right click in NAV tasktray icon / Disable Auto-Protect solved the problem, presenteing normal memory use.
4. CPU use is not affected, neither Nero's or another program's memory use in the Task Manager Processes page.
I hope more pepole can run some of these tests and post here. This is of great interest because both programs are quite popular.
Here I have posted some screenshoots of the situation at different test levels.
Thank you for your collaboration.
