Choppy playback

C

Carl_Wisconsin

Member
I want to upgrade my hardware and software if I can get better quality DVD playback. Occasionally I'll get choppy video or sound synch problems - which I assume is due to errors on the disk. Sometimes the errors appear to reside in the image file. I also suspect my burner may not be the best quality.

Software: MovieStar5 & DVDComplete
DVD burner: Verbatim VBTDVW1A (I think this only has a 2 MB buffer)
Disks: Verbatim DVD+R

I'm converting lots of home videos and making lots of copies. I'd rather make a change now if I can effectively correct these problems.

Who has found a good combination (software & burner) that gives excellent playback? --or-- are there always going to be these kind of problems with PC based systems?
 
Duracell

Duracell

1
Hi Carl, Welcome to our forum! :)

sorry, i don't have knowledge in DVD burning; please stay a little bit patient, the experts will surely find and reply your question;


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Blanchfort

Blanchfort

Member
I think movie star may be a part of the problem. Are you using Dazzle hardware to do your captures? I had a dazzle device and almost always lost sync on large captures or long files that had been edited together.

As far as skipping, the media you are using, verbatim, is not one often recommended. You might want to try a ritek disc, or order a sampler which will have a few brands of media to test your results. I, and many others swear by ritek media.

You might also post you system specs, as to low in a given area can play havok with your end results.
 
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C

Carl_Wisconsin

Member
Blanchfort said:
I think movie star may be a part of the problem. Are you using Dazzle hardware to do your captures? I had a dazzle device and almost always lost sync on large captures or long files that had been edited together.

As far as skipping, the media you are using, verbatim, is not one often recommended. You might want to try a ritek disc, or order a sampler which will have a few brands of media to test your results. I, and many others swear by ritek media.

You might also post you system specs, as to low in a given area can play havok with your end results.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply!

I am using a Dazzle DVC80 to capture from my video recorder. I am capturing and editing in MovieStar and then using their DVDComplete software to prepare and burn my DVD. The results have been moderately good but inconsistent and unreliable.

My computer is:
HP Pavilion 724c
Pentium 4
512MB ddr sdram
XP home edition

What hardware and software are you using now?

I believe Dazzle was purchased by Pinnacle a month ago. They recommend I upgrade to Studio 8 but continue to use my DVC80. This software will replace the need for MovieStar and DVDComplete. Any comments on this?
 
Blanchfort

Blanchfort

Member
My specs are my signature, but I do captures on a different PC, which has identical specs, except the video card is an ATI All in Wonder 9700 Pro, which gives me excellent video capture results, and never any sync problems. I use Sonic My DVD4 to do the DVD authoring, and burn to DVD.
 
Blanchfort

Blanchfort

Member
Oh, as far as studio 8 goes, not bad. Much better than movie star 5 feature wise, but takes a bit of getting used to , as far as the interface.
 
C

Carl_Wisconsin

Member
Blanchfort said:
Oh, as far as studio 8 goes, not bad. Much better than movie star 5 feature wise, but takes a bit of getting used to , as far as the interface.
Click to expand...
Thanks again for your response. I was not very observant of me to miss your hardware profile in your signature.

1. I have a Intel graphics controller 82845G. I think that is my video card.

2. You have more memory than me (1 GB vs 512MB).

3. Your burner has 2 MB of buffer like mine. I don't know if mine has underbuffer protection like yours does. The guy at CompUSA (PC store) said 2MB was probably the problem.

4. My sound card is Avance AC'97.

5. My capture device is a DVC80. I'm not sure what yours is.

I have done tests. I get problems (choppy video and sound synch) that show up consistently in the same general area in DVD copies made from the same image file. Sometimes they are more exaggerated in one copy vs. the other. My DVD player can sometimes 'error correct' what my PC (Windows Media Player) can't. From this I assume I'm having problems both with the 'capture' to 'image file' process and well as the 'image file' to 'DVD' process

If I make a second mpg from the same avi and then a second image file, the problems can disappear in the spot where they once existed on the DVD.

I'm assuming my system is set up OK. I have all programs off that I can turn off including the screen saver.

What do you think I should change first?
 
Blanchfort

Blanchfort

Member
My capture device is the All In Wonder Video card, which has built in MPEG2 capturing. The blank media you are using can also be a BIIIG factor in how well things turn out. I no longer buy anything that is on the shelf, both because of price, and quality. I have burned several HUNDRED discs now, and have had the very best luck with ritek media, which I purchase at http://www.meritline.com/rit4xcerhigd.html.

1st thing, is the mpeg file you have captured playing properly on your hard drive, before putting it to dvd? Stuttering there can be caused by a number of factors, such as drive fragmentation, insufficient memory, (shouldn't be an issue for you) and background apps running, such as a virus scanner which accesses you hard drive.
If the files you make play properly on your HD, but falter when on DVD, are you playing back on the PC, or a DVD set hooked to your tv?
If the latter, then you should try, if possible, another player, and also check compatability of your set with http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php.
If the former, are you playing in the burner, or a DVDRom?
Problems there can be caused by a dirty laser, or disc. Check for scratching, or fingerprints. As I said before, most stuttering issues are due to poor quality recording media. The CompUSA blanks are total garbage. The best thing they sell is TDK media. The Memorex is junk too. Look for a very dark purple dye on the bottom of the disc. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know,k.
 
C

Carl_Wisconsin

Member
Blanchfort said:
My capture device is the All In Wonder Video card, which has built in MPEG2 capturing. The blank media you are using can also be a BIIIG factor in how well things turn out. I no longer buy anything that is on the shelf, both because of price, and quality. I have burned several HUNDRED discs now, and have had the very best luck with ritek media, which I purchase at http://www.meritline.com/rit4xcerhigd.html.

1st thing, is the mpeg file you have captured playing properly on your hard drive, before putting it to dvd? Stuttering there can be caused by a number of factors, such as drive fragmentation, insufficient memory, (shouldn't be an issue for you) and background apps running, such as a virus scanner which accesses you hard drive.
If the files you make play properly on your HD, but falter when on DVD, are you playing back on the PC, or a DVD set hooked to your tv?
If the latter, then you should try, if possible, another player, and also check compatability of your set with http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php.
If the former, are you playing in the burner, or a DVDRom?
Problems there can be caused by a dirty laser, or disc. Check for scratching, or fingerprints. As I said before, most stuttering issues are due to poor quality recording media. The CompUSA blanks are total garbage. The best thing they sell is TDK media. The Memorex is junk too. Look for a very dark purple dye on the bottom of the disc. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know,k.
Click to expand...
Thanks again for your interest in my problem.
Let me summarize the tests I've done.
1. All 4 DVD copies I made last week have a common problem in the same spot when I play them in my DVD player --large pixels. In another spot, one of the 4 disks had choppy video and synch problems whereas the other 3 disks did not. When I play these same disks on my computer (using my DVD burner to read) using Windows Media Player I don't see the large pixels on any of the 4 disks but I do see choppy video in the same spots to a much greater extent. Apparently, my computer was able to prevent the large pixel problem but was worse at preventing choppy video.

2. I ran a new test where I make a second mpg from the same avi and then created a second image file. Then I burned a new DVD. The large pixel problem disappeared in the spot where they once existed on the DVD.

3. Today I burned a new disk using the original image file. I used a different media (On-DVD RW). The result -- I had the same large pixel problem in the same spot as before.

4. When I play the mpg file that I used to create the original image file, I can not see any problems when I play back on my computer using Windows Media Player.

This tells me the original image file was corrupt, but there must have been additional problems created in the burning process (possible software, burner or disk problems).

I do have Sonic MyDVD4. I think I'll try to use my original mpg file and burn a DVD using it instead of DVDComplete.

I just noticed I have my scanner icon in the lower right hand corner. Even though power is off my scanner, I wonder if that is goofing things up because the scanner is still enabled.

Any thoghts?
 
C

Carl_Wisconsin

Member
Blanchfort said:
Let me kinow how My DVD worked out. Sounds like the original file is ok. The scanner should not be of consequence.
Click to expand...
Good to hear from you again. Being able to explain this to someone helps me sort this out.

Before I try Sonic MyDVD and Ritek disks- I am trying to systematically change one thing at a time. By closing all programs in my system tray and remaking the image file from my original mpg files, I seemed to have gotten rid of the choppy playback on my computer when using Windows Media Player. The only problem I still have is "large pixtels" when viewing scenes of a fire in the fireplace and candles on a birthday cake on my DVD player. This could be due to my cheap DVD player. Once the large pixtels start to occur, the playback becomes erratic and it carries into new chapters that would otherwise play OK if I started playing the DVD at that point. I am going to see if my friend’s much better DVD player does the same. Even if it is OK in his DVD player I don’t think I’ll be satisfied until I can get my DVD’s to play as good as I get from Blockbuster.

Next, I want to recreate my mpg files from my original avi files with all programs closed in the system tray to see if that is the root problem. If that produces the same problem, I’ll try Sonic MyDVD. Do you think the problem might be in the original avi file?

Bye for now. This all takes so much time - but it keeps me out of trouble.
 
Blanchfort

Blanchfort

Member
Actually, it sounds more like you are encoding the mpeg at too low of a bitrate. What program are you using to convert the .avi to .mpg? You probably can reduce this effect by encoding with variable rate, and multiple passes. There are some decent, and inexpensive programs such as TMPGEnc that will do that and make it DVD Compliant, so you DVD authoring software isn't doing any encoding. If you want to spend some serious cash, you can get the Cinema Craft Encoder, which is undisputably the best. I doubt the original .avi is an issue, unless your camcorder doesn't have a low enough lux rating to capture low light scenes properly. Most likely the bitrate of the darker scenes is the issue in the mpg you have converted from the original .avi.

Also, the quality of your player, is not as important as it's compatability with a given media, but can still be a factor as to how well it recovers from source errors.

Good Luck
 
C

Carl_Wisconsin

Member
Blanchfort said:
Actually, it sounds more like you are encoding the mpeg at too low of a bitrate. What program are you using to convert the .avi to .mpg? You probably can reduce this effect by encoding with variable rate, and multiple passes. There are some decent, and inexpensive programs such as TMPGEnc that will do that and make it DVD Compliant, so you DVD authoring software isn't doing any encoding. If you want to spend some serious cash, you can get the , which is undisputably the best. I doubt the original .avi is an issue, unless your camcorder doesn't have a low enough lux rating to capture low light scenes properly. Most likely the bitrate of the darker scenes is the issue in the mpg you have converted from the original .avi.

Also, the quality of your player, is not as important as it's compatability with a given media, but can still be a factor as to how well it recovers from source errors.

Good Luck
Click to expand...
I am using MovieStar5 to capture and make mpg files. I like it because I can adjust the bightness as the avi file is being made to compensate for my washed out videos (10+ years old). It also allows me to edit. It does have a setting called sample rate in the rendering area. The setting is by default set at 48000. It can be changed as low as 11025. Is this what I should slow down? I've read a lot about the TMPGEnc in this forum. Will it allow me to edit or adjust brightness?

In an earlier message you thought my Dazzle device (DVC80) and MovieStar5 may be a problem with maintaining synch on long files. Did you mean that this was a problem in the mpg file? I've never noticed a problem playing back mpg files. It's only been when playing back the DVD. Please explain this again.

Tonight I tried playing my test DVDs in a better Sony DVD player (one that has progressive scan). It took care of the large pixtels in scenes where I had a lot of contrast (candles on a birthday cake with the lights out). One disk I had that played choppy in my Apex DVD player was probably a bad disk because those chapters that were bad didn't even play in the Sony. Other than that all other disks only played choppy in my computer. So if I get a better DVD player and better disks I'll probably be OK.

I ordered some Ritek +R disks today. Thanks for the advice.

Cinema Craft Encoder- What is the cost? Why is it so good?

ForceASPI17 & aspichk are programs recommended in the tutorials (under tips for beginners). Should I try to install those? or could I goof something up?

Update 11/22/03: I finished testing Sonic MyDVD. I worked great. I encoded the MPG files that were giving me pixels when viewing candles in the dark and there were no pixels or choppy playback on my cheap DVD recorder. It doesn't appear I can use my DVC80 to bring in video from my video tape recorder. ArcSoft ShowBiz came with Sonic MyDVD. It will recognize my DVC80 but appears to only save movies in MPEG1 format (I want to archive MPG files for a backup). I could continue to use MovieStar to capture and Sonic DVD to author. What would you do?
 
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Blanchfort

Blanchfort

Member
Carl_Wisconsin said:
I am using MovieStar5 to capture and make mpg files. I like it because I can adjust the bightness as the avi file is being made to compensate for my washed out videos (10+ years old). It also allows me to edit. It does have a setting called sample rate in the rendering area. The setting is by default set at 48000. It can be changed as low as 11025. Is this what I should slow down? I've read a lot about the TMPGEnc in this forum. Will it allow me to edit or adjust brightness?

In an earlier message you thought my Dazzle device (DVC80) and MovieStar5 may be a problem with maintaining synch on long files. Did you mean that this was a problem in the mpg file? I've never noticed a problem playing back mpg files. It's only been when playing back the DVD. Please explain this again.

Tonight I tried playing my test DVDs in a better Sony DVD player (one that has progressive scan). It took care of the large pixtels in scenes where I had a lot of contrast (candles on a birthday cake with the lights out). One disk I had that played choppy in my Apex DVD player was probably a bad disk because those chapters that were bad didn't even play in the Sony. Other than that all other disks only played choppy in my computer. So if I get a better DVD player and better disks I'll probably be OK.

I ordered some Ritek +R disks today. Thanks for the advice.

Cinema Craft Encoder- What is the cost? Why is it so good?

ForceASPI17 & aspichk are programs recommended in the tutorials (under tips for beginners). Should I try to install those? or could I goof something up?

Update 11/22/03: I finished testing Sonic MyDVD. I worked great. I encoded the MPG files that were giving me pixels when viewing candles in the dark and there were no pixels or choppy playback on my cheap DVD recorder. It doesn't appear I can use my DVC80 to bring in video from my video tape recorder. ArcSoft ShowBiz came with Sonic MyDVD. It will recognize my DVC80 but appears to only save movies in MPEG1 format (I want to archive MPG files for a backup). I could continue to use MovieStar to capture and Sonic DVD to author. What would you do?
Click to expand...
Well, if you are having sucess with My DVD, then great! Once you get the ritek discs, the apex "should" play better. Force ASPI is not needed, if you can burn your discs now, and aspick just checks if you have aspi installed. I have never installed an aspi layer myself. There should be a setting to change the Arcsoft software to do mpeg2, I'll look into that, as I have acess to a bunch of HP machines. Meanwhile if moviestar is working, go with it. Just make sure you screen your mpegs before burning.
Cinema craft SP costs $1950.00
It is the best, because it produces the absolute best quality at any given bitrate. Oh, and in bitrate, the HIGHER the number, the better the quality, so lowering that setting would result in smaller, lower quality files. There are bitrate calculators out there that will calculate the optimal bitrate/size ratio for you based on your mpeg length. Lastly, yes, TMPGEnc would allow you those settings, and many more, like variable bitrate, that moviestar doesn't feature. It is a widely used encoder among video enthusiasts that don't have the bux for CCE. Glad you are having some successes.
 
C

Carl_Wisconsin

Member
Blanchfort said:
Well, if you are having sucess with My DVD, then great! Once you get the ritek discs, the apex "should" play better. Force ASPI is not needed, if you can burn your discs now, and aspick just checks if you have aspi installed. I have never installed an aspi layer myself. There should be a setting to change the Arcsoft software to do mpeg2, I'll look into that, as I have acess to a bunch of HP machines. Meanwhile if moviestar is working, go with it. Just make sure you screen your mpegs before burning.
Cinema craft SP costs $1950.00
It is the best, because it produces the absolute best quality at any given bitrate. Oh, and in bitrate, the HIGHER the number, the better the quality, so lowering that setting would result in smaller, lower quality files. There are bitrate calculators out there that will calculate the optimal bitrate/size ratio for you based on your mpeg length. Lastly, yes, TMPGEnc would allow you those settings, and many more, like variable bitrate, that moviestar doesn't feature. It is a widely used encoder among video enthusiasts that don't have the bux for CCE. Glad you are having some successes.
Click to expand...
Thanks again for your helpful comments,
If I can get better quality MPEGs with TMPGEnc I want to download a trial version. Would my DVC80 work with TMPGEnc? or should I switch to better hardware?
 
Blanchfort

Blanchfort

Member
Carl_Wisconsin said:
Thanks again for your helpful comments,
If I can get better quality MPEGs with TMPGEnc I want to download a trial version. Would my DVC80 work with TMPGEnc? or should I switch to better hardware?
Click to expand...
Yep, TMPGEnc doesn't care where the source is from. Not that you will be able to go direct from the DVC80. You'll still have to capture to a file the way you have been. Your hardware is fine, just capture at the highest bitrate possible, regardless of size, if you plan on reencoding it. If you are capturing to .avi, then you can do nice work with TMPGEnc. If you can capture to DVD compliant .mpg, then you really don't need it, unless you want to do some filtering, or encode it smaller. In the case of .avi, or reencoding, have a look at this guide.
http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html
There are also DVD templates built into it, that work fine with the default settings. It's just up to how much time you want to spend tweaking it for the best results, by your standards, before you use My DVD to author it. It is still a lengthy process. Expect a few hours of encode time, because it's not the speediest program ever made. But if you make the file dvd compliant, with 48khz audio, you'll not have to do any encoding with My DVD, and that will save time, as well as preserve your quality. Learn to use a bitrate calculator, and you'll get good at sizing pretty quick. Remember, a DVD really only holds 4.38 Gb, including your menu.
 
C

Carl_Wisconsin

Member
Blanchfort said:
Yep, TMPGEnc doesn't care where the source is from. Not that you will be able to go direct from the DVC80. You'll still have to capture to a file the way you have been. Your hardware is fine, just capture at the highest bitrate possible, regardless of size, if you plan on reencoding it. If you are capturing to .avi, then you can do nice work with TMPGEnc. If you can capture to DVD compliant .mpg, then you really don't need it, unless you want to do some filtering, or encode it smaller. In the case of .avi, or reencoding, have a look at this guide.
http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html
There are also DVD templates built into it, that work fine with the default settings. It's just up to how much time you want to spend tweaking it for the best results, by your standards, before you use My DVD to author it. It is still a lengthy process. Expect a few hours of encode time, because it's not the speediest program ever made. But if you make the file dvd compliant, with 48khz audio, you'll not have to do any encoding with My DVD, and that will save time, as well as preserve your quality. Learn to use a bitrate calculator, and you'll get good at sizing pretty quick. Remember, a DVD really only holds 4.38 Gb, including your menu.
Click to expand...
Hello again,
You've given me lots to contemplate. I think I need to try it out.
I found a site where I can download TMPGEnc. The free software versions are shown at http://www.tmpgenc.net/e_main.html. I think MPEG2 is only supported for 30 days in this version. A 14 day trial copy of TMPGEnc Plus can be downloaded from http://www.pegasys-inc.com/e_main.html. Should I try the "Plus" version? Maybe I should also try "DVD author" too.
 
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Blanchfort

Blanchfort

Member
Carl_Wisconsin said:
Hello again,
I found a site where I can download TMPGEnc. The free software versions are shown at http://www.tmpgenc.net/e_main.html. A 14 day trial copy of TMPGEnc Plus can be downloaded from http://www.pegasys-inc.com/e_main.html. Should I try the "Plus" version?
Click to expand...
Give the freebie a try 1st to see if it will suit your needs, and you like the program, before investing any money. It's just a suggestion. There are other encoders out there you may prefer. Lot's of people are raving about the Main Concept Encoder, but I have not had any experience with it to make any call that way. Supposed to be quite fast......
http://www.mainconcept.com/products.shtml purchase info
http://www.mainconcept.com/downloads.shtml Demo Download
 
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