VHS to DVD need help

[Carl_Wisconsin]

After 6 months I'm still trying to make this work.

This week I bought a mini-DV camera. I transferred my 2 hour VHS tape onto 3 mini-DV tapes. I then captured each tape into Studio 8 and created a project. The video source can't be more perfect than that! The avi files all played good in Windows Media Player. The avi files also played good in the player window in Studio 8. After editing I created a DVD and noticed that the audio lags the video at the end of the disk about 1/2 to 1 sec. The out-of-synch condition seems to get progressively worse from the beginning of the movie to the end. This has happens consistently.

I also created a new avi file from the edited avi file in my project. The new avi showed the same problem at the end of the movie (about 1 hr and 45 minutes into it). Therefore the problem is not my DVD writer or the disks I am using.

I also created a new project and DVD showing only the last 15 minutes of the movie. There was no synch problem.

I appears the software is not able to keep the picture and voice in synch in 1-2 hour movies.

Assuming I have all my VHS transferred to mini-DVD tapes, what software can I use to edit them, add chapters, and make 2 hour DVD movies without noticable synch problems?

 

[ChickenMan]

Burning and media do not cause audio sync problems, but capturing coftware can. Problem probably lies with Studio 8 ( I could never get it work prperly for me). I have found no issues with Ulead Video Studio 8 for capturing. I tend to capture straight to MPEG2 ( as both *.mpv and *.WAV files) though rather than AVI. I then convert the WAV to AC3 (see the Tutorial section) and author with Maestro but TMPGEnc DVD Author, DVDLab, etc can also be used. Adding Menus, chapters, etc if needed.

 

[Carl_Wisconsin]

Burning and media do not cause audio sync problems, but capturing coftware can. Problem probably lies with Studio 8 ( I could never get it work prperly for me). I have found no issues with Ulead Video Studio 8 for capturing. I tend to capture straight to MPEG2 ( as both *.mpv and *.WAV files) though rather than AVI. I then convert the WAV to AC3 (see the Tutorial section) and author with Maestro but TMPGEnc DVD Author, DVDLab, etc can also be used. Adding Menus, chapters, etc if needed.

Dear Chicken Man,
You have convinced me to dump Pinnacle Studio 8 (their tech service is very slow to get back and has not been very helpful either). I looked up Ulead VideoStudio on the web (it is version 7 I believe). I'll get that package and start trying it out as soon as I can.

Can you briefly explain or send me to an explanation---
1. Are you saying its the poor job that Studio 8 does of rendering that is my problem - so that if the rendering part of the process is done right, the resulting DVD will most likely be in synch?

2. Will I need special software to convert .wav to AC3? Please point me to the tutorial. Would I still need to do this if I don't care about dolby stereo?

3. Is DVDMaestro the software you are refering to? If so, it is out of my price range. It seems the Ulead software also can do authoring and burning. Since I can't afford DVD Maestro, would you still recommend I purchase DVDlab?

Thanks again for your advice!

 

[weboneando]

1. Are you saying its the poor job that Studio 8 does of rendering that is my problem - so that if the rendering part of the process is done right, the resulting DVD will most likely be in synch?

I had this problem in Vegas when rendering to MPG seems like the codec/encoder have a bug that makes the audio and video out of synch with large files, in my case I solved the issue by using a frame server plugin and then using cinemacraft to do the encoding, all of this because when you want to do editing in a video far more than just spliting and joining say adding transitions and effects or more, a compressed format like MPG will not let you produce very good results, therefore an avi file with no compression or a dv format is more suitable for this kind of job, if you have the chance to capture using dv format and want to get the best results then capture in avi using dv do all your editing and then when everything is done encode to dvd format.

If you´re doing just simple transfers (vhs to DVD)then try capturing in avi using VirtualDub and encoding with TMPGEnc, there are a lot of features included in VirtualDub even a frame server that can be used with TMPGEnc.

If you´re interested take a look in here:
http://www.virtualdub.com/

 

[Carl_Wisconsin]

I had this problem in Vegas when rendering to MPG seems like the codec/encoder have a bug that makes the audio and video out of synch with large files, in my case I solved the issue by using a frame server plugin and then using cinemacraft to do the encoding, all of this because when you want to do editing in a video far more than just spliting and joining say adding transitions and effects or more, a compressed format like MPG will not let you produce very good results, therefore an avi file with no compression or a dv format is more suitable for this kind of job, if you have the chance to capture using dv format and want to get the best results then capture in avi using dv do all your editing and then when everything is done encode to dvd format.

If you´re doing just simple transfers (vhs to DVD)then try capturing in avi using VirtualDub and encoding with TMPGEnc, there are a lot of features included in VirtualDub even a frame server that can be used with TMPGEnc.

If you´re interested take a look in here:
http://www.virtualdub.com/

Dear Weboneando,
I need to do editing. I need to remove bad transitions and in some cases lighten or darken some scenes. Some of my VHS tapes are 12 years old so I'm first transferring them on to mini-DVD using a camcorder I just purchased. I have plenty of hard drive space to bring them in as an avi file.

What is the frame server plug-in that you mentioned and how does it work?
How would I do editing?
Would the "cinemacraft encoder basic" package be good enough?

Many thanks for your response.

 

[ChickenMan]

I have tried many Capturing software from my MSI Video Card and have simply found Ulead Video Studio 7 to not give any problems. Audio sync problems have been found by many members here using Vegas and Pin. Studio. Vid Studio will also allow Editting of your captured file but personally I have never used it so not aware of all its features. It can also author and burn to a DVDR for you as well. Again I have never used that either, I just use it to capture. But just grab the Demo version and give it a go to see if it does what you want it to.

If your making PAL dvd's then you can leave the audio in MP2 format (MPEG1 Layer2 format) but if your NTSC, then you must convert to AC3 (2 ch or course) for dvd compatability. Read about this in the guides in the Tutorial section.

DVDLab is an excellent authoring tool and very reasonably priced. I have Maestro so I naturally use it for 99% of my authoring.

 

[weboneando]

Dear Weboneando,
I need to do editing. I need to remove bad transitions and in some cases lighten or darken some scenes. Some of my VHS tapes are 12 years old so I'm first transferring them on to mini-DVD using a camcorder I just purchased. I have plenty of hard drive space to bring them in as an avi file.

What is the frame server plug-in that you mentioned and how does it work?
How would I do editing?
Would the "cinemacraft encoder basic" package be good enough?

Many thanks for your response.

First of all, if you own a digital camera that has composite or s-video inputs then there´s no point in transfering your vhs tapes to mini-dv what you should do is connect your camera to the pc and then your vhs to your camera and capture your vhs directly to the pc using the camera as a bridge this way you´ll save time and effort.

The function of a frame server is like this: you do all your editing in your editor program and when you have everything done instead of rendering all the project with the provided codecs in the program you render to a frame server, and then the frame server provides frame by frame the complete project to an external encoder, this is very useful when you don´t like the codecs inside the program or when they don´t work ok like in Vegas.

For Vegas there´s a freeware plugin for frame server and in VirtualDub it is already included.

VirtualDub has alot of third party filters that are provided for free and have amasing quality and for a lot of functions so for cleaning porpouses this is the best tool that I have used so far.

As for editing like ChikenMan said I haven´t heard any complaints about Ulead, I recommend you to apture and clean first all your capturted video in VirtualDub and then do all your editing in the program of your choice.

 

[Carl_Wisconsin]

I have tried many Capturing software from my MSI Video Card and have simply found Ulead Video Studio 7 to not give any problems. Audio sync problems have been found by many members here using Vegas and Pin. Studio. Vid Studio will also allow Editting of your captured file but personally I have never used it so not aware of all its features. It can also author and burn to a DVDR for you as well. Again I have never used that either, I just use it to capture. But just grab the Demo version and give it a go to see if it does what you want it to.

If your making PAL dvd's then you can leave the audio in MP2 format (MPEG1 Layer2 format) but if your NTSC, then you must convert to AC3 (2 ch or course) for dvd compatability. Read about this in the guides in the Tutorial section.

DVDLab is an excellent authoring tool and very reasonably priced. I have Maestro so I naturally use it for 99% of my authoring.

Dear CM,
I downloaded the trial version of Ulead today and I will be giving it a try shortly. I'm all excited. Thanks again for your help. I'll report back my findings.

 

[Carl_Wisconsin]

First of all, if you own a digital camera that has composite or s-video inputs then there´s no point in transfering your vhs tapes to mini-dv what you should do is connect your camera to the pc and then your vhs to your camera and capture your vhs directly to the pc using the camera as a bridge this way you´ll save time and effort.

The function of a frame server is like this: you do all your editing in your editor program and when you have everything done instead of rendering all the project with the provided codecs in the program you render to a frame server, and then the frame server provides frame by frame the complete project to an external encoder, this is very useful when you don´t like the codecs inside the program or when they don´t work ok like in Vegas.

For Vegas there´s a freeware plugin for frame server and in VirtualDub it is already included.

VirtualDub has alot of third party filters that are provided for free and have amasing quality and for a lot of functions so for cleaning porpouses this is the best tool that I have used so far.

As for editing like ChikenMan said I haven´t heard any complaints about Ulead, I recommend you to apture and clean first all your capturted video in VirtualDub and then do all your editing in the program of your choice.

Dear Weboneando,

The reason I started transferring to mini-DV tape first was to preserve the vhs tape from further degradation and retain as a backup for future use (these are all family videos). I also thought it might help to record the imperfections on my VHS tape onto another tape because I noticed the Pinnacle software was not able to capture the file properly unless the video source was behaving perfectly. But as you say, if all works well I'd rather go direct into the computer through the camera and bring it back later (after editing) for "storage".

Thank you for the further explanation regarding virtualdub. I found it on the web. It appears to be free?

Just to make sure I understand the process

1. Capture the avi using Virtualdub
2. "Clean" the avi using Virtualdub - although I don't know yet what that means
3. Use any program to edit the avi (perhaps ulead)
4. Use a frame server to send the edited avi to an external encoder to render the project - right now I don't know how that would get done.
5. Use a DVD authoring sofware to make menus and burn to disk.

This process looks a little scarey right now. I think I'm going to play with ulead first. I respect you for being able to solve the exact same problem I have right now. I will return to this method if I can't get the other to work.

Thanks agian for your help. I will try to let you know how things turn out.

 

[celtic_druid]

VirtualDub is no good for capturing DV.
Cleaning would refer to running denoise, etc. filters, for this I would suggest using AVISynth as it does not require a RGB24 conversion, also does not require creating a seperate intermediate file.
Can also do simply editing with AVISynth on the fly as you frameserve your AVI's to an MPEG2 encoder such as CCE.

 

[Carl_Wisconsin]

Hip Hip Hooray!

Today I used Ulead VideoStudio7 to edit my 3 avi files. I then rendered a new avi which was 2 hours in length. To my delight there was no synch problem at the end of the movie when viewed in Windows Media Player!!!! I am so glad for the Ulead suggestion. Early next week I will try out the authoring part of this software and see if I can make a DVD.

 

[Carl_Wisconsin]

VirtualDub is no good for capturing DV.
Cleaning would refer to running denoise, etc. filters, for this I would suggest using AVISynth as it does not require a RGB24 conversion, also does not require creating a seperate intermediate file.
Can also do simply editing with AVISynth on the fly as you frameserve your AVI's to an MPEG2 encoder such as CCE.

Thanks CD for your comment.
I have looked up AVISynth on the web. It all seems quite over my head at the moment. Perhaps all I need to do is get the program and play around with it. If I can just get my voice synch problems fixed first in a simple way I'll give it a go. I appear to be on a "roll" right now with Ulead. Thanks again.

 

[The-poacher]

carl stick with it bud !!!

 

[ipdave]

Another good way is to get all on a DV tape, then edit the AVI on your PC. Save the AVI back to DV (new tape). Then capture from the edited DV to MPG2 (let Studio capture and convert for you, doing this instead of capturing to AVI and later converting seems to keep audio sync).

 

[Carl_Wisconsin]

Another good way is to get all on a DV tape, then edit the AVI on your PC. Save the AVI back to DV (new tape). Then capture from the edited DV to MPG2 (let Studio capture and convert for you, doing this instead of capturing to AVI and later converting seems to keep audio sync).

Dear IPDAVE,

Thanks for your comment. I did copy my vhs to dv tape first before capturing on my computer. I rendered a new avi with Ulead and there was no synch problem. I need to make a dvd next from my edited avi to see if everything still holds up. I could certainly use the last part of your method if what I try doesn't work. Did some experience cause you to go to that extra step?

What are your thoughts on this:

If I were to use the passthrough capability of my camcorder (or a DV converter card like the Canopus ADVC50) to bring my VHS in one 2 hour chunk, it would save time. I have over 30 VHS tapes to do! I could then clean up the avi and send them back to my camera to make a DV copy when done. What I don't know is if the process of making the DV tape first actually "hides" the imperfections on the VHS tape (where I stopped the recording, took the tape out of the camera, played it in a VHS player, put it back in the camera, and resumed recording either before or after the true end of the previous recording). If I were to go direct from my VHS player to my computer through a dv converter card, would these imperfections cause problems (they did with Pinnacle Studio8)?

Do you have any experience here?

 

[Carl_Wisconsin]

More Good Results

Today I finsihed making my first DVD using Unlead VideoStudio7. I worked with the avi files I imported from my mini-DV camera and used VideoStudio to edit, render, and author them. I selected Fair Quality so I could get 2 hours onto one DVD. The video data rate was a variable 4000 KBS, frame size was 720x480, frame type: frame-based.

The video quality equaled the VHS tape. I was very pleased. There were no synch problems or pixtel problems that I saw using other software.

The DVD menu structure is limiting but simple and seems more than adequate for what I want to do.

I wish to thank those that offerred their suggestions. Once I get solid with this simple method I'm going to look at some of those other ideas that could reduce effort and improve quality even further.

 

[weboneando]

Glad you made it! now those family treasures will be safe

 

[ipdave]

I had converted all 5 seasons of B-5 that I recorded to 2hour VHS tapes two years ago; I ended up using a hw capture card (Dazzle PCI) and M2-Edit 4/5 to cut out the commercials and resplice to MPEG2 (SVCD, lo-bitrate 2100). Then made SVCDs (all 110).

The DV way may not be the best for that many tapes...

 

[Carl_Wisconsin]

I had converted all 5 seasons of B-5 that I recorded to 2hour VHS tapes two years ago; I ended up using a hw capture card (Dazzle PCI) and M2-Edit 4/5 to cut out the commercials and resplice to MPEG2 (SVCD, lo-bitrate 2100). Then made SVCDs (all 110).

The DV way may not be the best for that many tapes...

Woah! That's a lot of SVCDs and a lot of work. Mini-dv tapes seemed to me to be the best way to archive and preserve the quality of my orginial vhs tapes (family videos). I am making a dv tape first because I heard that a capture card/software may have problems with "bad spots" on the vhs tape.