PowerSupplies - PC Power&Cooling Turbo-Cool 450ATX vs Enermax/Antec TruePower 460-480

[Almighty1]

PowerSupplies - PC Power&Cooling Turbo-Cool 450ATX vs Enermax/Antec TruePower 460-480

Greetings everyone:

I have a SuperMicro SC-760ATX Full Tower Case (http://www.vst.co.nz/case/supermicro/sc760a.htm) which I am considering to build a Pentium 4 based system. I have the PC Power &
Cooling Turbo-Cool 450ATX 450Watt Power Supply in it now. I don't think the PC&P has the 12V Plug needed for the Pentium 4, are there any pass-thru adapters available? Also, will I be better off with this PSU or the Enermax/Antec 460-480Watt models? Since I have both of those here as well and I noticed the Enermax/Antec does have the fan on the bottom of the PSU which the PC&P doesn't but I think the 12V rating on the PC&P is higher than both the Enermax/Antec. I guess what I'm asking is, would the Enermax/Antec be as good and reliable since PC&P Power Supplies have been like famous for their PSUs and their price tags. Thanks.

 

[Duracell]

Enermax is always recommended; they are famous for their stable and powerful 12 line;

Greetings from
Duracell

 

[jmtrash]

Antec Treupower has never let me down in resolving power problems nor in stability.

 

[dx]

I have been using PC Power and Cooling PSU's for years now and will never go back to the ordinary PSU.

It seems your Turbo-Cool 450ATX was made before the P4 was common. I have a Turbo-Cool 425 ATX which is a P4 PSU. Best $130 I ever spent.

Antec and Enermax are good PSU's to be sure.... but for a few extra bucks you can get the Cadilac of PSU's. Their line regulation is within 1%, their peak ratings are higher, their true power ratings are higher than most PSUs of the same wattage, and they all come with a 5 year warantee. And since you live in California it's a no brainer (they are in Carlsbad, CA). For a minimal charge, they will send you a new PSU in 48 hours.

Considering you are going to use that GeForce 5900 vid card, I would stick with PC Power and Cooling. You already know how good they are.

However, have you tried calling their toll free line to see if there is something you can do? (800) 722-6555. Their customer service is fantastic! If there is anything they can do, I'm sure they will.

 

[shadoe_phantom]

I agree with dxkim. PC Power and Cooling are awesome.
Enermax & Antec are also good choices, but they're not as stable. I know you run your PC intensively Almighty1 and you want to make sure it is as stable as can be.
Being that said though, Enermax and Antec are good enough, but I would go probably with the Antec one.
If money is no option though, you know which to get lol.
Good luck.

 

[catachresis]

Have a look at the units produces by Zippy/Emacs. They pricipally make power supplies for servers, and apparently they were a past OEM supplier for PC Power and Cooling. I got an Emacs 400 watt ps last year for just under $100 and I've been quite pleased.


Reading material:
http://www.tdl.com/~netex/cases/ps.html


If you are looking for the highest quality ATX 400W power supply on the market we whole heartedly endorse the Zippy/Emacs AP2-5400F-RV2 400W model. The Zippy/Emacs AP2-5400F-RV2 400W power supply is resold by PC Power and Cooling under the brand name Turbo Cool 400. It is also relabeled and sold by California PC Products as their new 400W power supplly. All three power supplies are identical except for the label. Zippy USA, Inc. (Shin Jiuh Corp of Taiwan) has a long established history in the power supply business. US Power & Technology Corporation (USP&T) of El Paso, Texas, established in 1968, originally resold Emacs Power Supplies made by Zippy USA, Inc. US Power oversaw their own production facility in Taiwan and did final product assembly, custom OEM modifications, and quality control operations in their El Paso facilities. In 1998 US power went out of business. However, the same folks are now running Magtech (915)774-0066. Two of their former customers included California PC Products of Hollister, CA, and PC Power and Cooling of Carlsbad, CA. However, due to recent quality control issues with Magtech power supplies, both California PC Products and PC Power and Cooling have ceased resale of Magtech 400W ATX power supplies and switched to the Zippy/Emacs AP2-5400F-RV2 400W model. Zippy/Emacs also makes a 300W ATX model, the AX2-5300F(B), which is currently under evaluation.

 

[Almighty1]

I have been using PC Power and Cooling PSU's for years now and will never go back to the ordinary PSU.

It seems your Turbo-Cool 450ATX was made before the P4 was common. I have a Turbo-Cool 425 ATX which is a P4 PSU. Best $130 I ever spent.

Antec and Enermax are good PSU's to be sure.... but for a few extra bucks you can get the Cadilac of PSU's. Their line regulation is within 1%, their peak ratings are higher, their true power ratings are higher than most PSUs of the same wattage, and they all come with a 5 year warantee. And since you live in California it's a no brainer (they are in Carlsbad, CA). For a minimal charge, they will send you a new PSU in 48 hours.

Considering you are going to use that GeForce 5900 vid card, I would stick with PC Power and Cooling. You already know how good they are.

However, have you tried calling their toll free line to see if there is something you can do? (800) 722-6555. Their customer service is fantastic! If there is anything they can do, I'm sure they will.

Actually, I called PC Power & Cooling about the Turbo-Cool 450ATX and what seems to happen is in 2002, they revised it and all they did was add a P4 connector but on mines, the adapter will work fine since the specs on both the 2000 and 2002 models are the same. I've had the Turbo-Cool 400ATX as well but sold it when I got the Turbo-Cool 425ATX but they were out of stock so they upgraded me to the 450ATX for free. I wonder who PCP&C power supplies are made by? I've read they are relabeled Sparkling and some said they are ChannelWell which would be the same company that makes Enermax and Antec's. Don't the Antec TruePower's have dedicated rates for each voltage line though? I guess my only complaint is I wished it had the second fan on the bottom of the PSU. I'm using a Turbo-Cool 2x exhaust fan as well.

This is the specs for my PSU:

DC Output
Output: +5V @ 50A
+12V @ 18A
-5V @ 0.3A
-12V @ 2A
+3.3V @ 40A
+5VSB @ 2A
+5V & +3.3V<300W
Regulation: 1% (+5, +12)
3% (-5, -12)
1% (+3.3)
Ripple: 1% (p-p)
Hold Time: 20ms
PG Delay: 300ms

 

[Almighty1]

I agree with dxkim. PC Power and Cooling are awesome.
Enermax & Antec are also good choices, but they're not as stable. I know you run your PC intensively Almighty1 and you want to make sure it is as stable as can be.
Being that said though, Enermax and Antec are good enough, but I would go probably with the Antec one.
If money is no option though, you know which to get lol.
Good luck.

Interesting. I always thought that Enermax and Antec were like almost the same quality but PC Power & Cooling just rebadges others products and then does a heavy markup. PC P & C does have line conditioning, I wonder if the other ones do too. The +12V is higher on a PCP&C than even the 550Watt Antec's for one thing but I guess the others are better at the +5 and +3.3v lines or something. Actually, I already have the PCP&C but it just didn't have the P4 connector but since PCP&C said the ATX to P4 adapter works fine and it can still handle a second CPU even with 8 drives, I'm good to go even though I lose a connector compared to the revised 2002 model so I can always use Y connectors.
On my case, there is the top exhaust which is 92mm so I have a ADDA Ultra High Speed fan up there and then there is the exhaust on the back of the case right behind the CPU which is 60mm, would it help any if I used a 60mm to 80mm adapter and used a 80mm 50cfm fan instead of the 60mm ADDA ultra high speed fan that is there now?

 

[Almighty1]

Have a look at the units produces by Zippy/Emacs. They pricipally make power supplies for servers, and apparently they were a past OEM supplier for PC Power and Cooling. I got an Emacs 400 watt ps last year for just under $100 and I've been quite pleased.


Reading material:
http://www.tdl.com/~netex/cases/ps.html

Thanks for the link. I read that line 2-3 years ago and lost the link. I wonder who makes the Turbo-Cool 450ATX which I have and dxkim's Turbo-Cool 425ATX. It would be interesting to see what the non-PCP&C rebadged version costs.

 

[shadoe_phantom]

It is possible that they are rebagged from another company, but I read somewhere that they have added features from the normal products (or use more expensive parts *customized). Like I said, I think the Antec or others mentioned here are all good, however I know the Enermax has had some power issues regarding 12v and 5±. This had some workarounds (mods found at amdmb board) but I never experienced these problems with my Enermax. I'm quite happy with it (but I guess everyone has different experiences as PCs have a mind of their own lol).
As for your exhaust by the CPU I would reverse the fan there so the airflow comes in/blows towards the CPU. Other people might argue otherwise, but since you already have one ontop of the case that does that, no need (as hot air rises anyways *so if you have air coming in from back and side of the case, the hot air will go upwards). Also as far as changing the ultra high speed fan ontop, all depends on you. Go with the one that has more airflow (CFM). Noise might also play a factor for you. Myself I find a good 80mm fan can be slower but give off as much airflow and are much more silent than those screaming 60mm fans.
Anyhow,
Good luck
*hope that helped

 

[Almighty1]

It is possible that they are rebagged from another company, but I read somewhere that they have added features from the normal products (or use more expensive parts *customized). Like I said, I think the Antec or others mentioned here are all good, however I know the Enermax has had some power issues regarding 12v and 5±. This had some workarounds (mods found at amdmb board) but I never experienced these problems with my Enermax. I'm quite happy with it (but I guess everyone has different experiences as PCs have a mind of their own lol).
As for your exhaust by the CPU I would reverse the fan there so the airflow comes in/blows towards the CPU. Other people might argue otherwise, but since you already have one ontop of the case that does that, no need (as hot air rises anyways *so if you have air coming in from back and side of the case, the hot air will go upwards). Also as far as changing the ultra high speed fan ontop, all depends on you. Go with the one that has more airflow (CFM). Noise might also play a factor for you. Myself I find a good 80mm fan can be slower but give off as much airflow and are much more silent than those screaming 60mm fans.
Anyhow,
Good luck
*hope that helped

I always thought they were simply rebadged products from what I read on the anandtech forums many years ago. I just wonder like since Antec's TruePower is supposed to have dedicated power lines, how does it differ from a PC Power & Cooling model when you can get like 2.5 for the price of one PCP&C it seems. Actually, I meant the 92mm above the PSU since I have a full tower is already a Ultra High Speed so I have the noise already. I just meant for the fan on the rear of the case behind the CPU, it's 60mm - would I be better off with a 80mm fan using a 60mm to 80mm fan adapter? All the 80mm fans I have are atleast 44CFM. I'm just worried if I reverse the fan behind the CPU on the case, would that cause a problem with the front intakes though? I also have one of these things... http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_cooling.php?ProdID=77094

Do you know if this actually works?

 

[shadoe_phantom]

the fan on the rear of the case behind the CPU, it's 60mm - would I be better off with a 80mm fan using a 60mm to 80mm fan adapter?

Yes you would be (if it fits), but not really needed. 60mm will do just fine there.

worried if I reverse the fan behind the CPU on the case, would that cause a problem with the front intakes though?

No it won't as the front intake fans are lower anyways and I presume you most likely have them blowing air over your HDDs? If not that is a good thing to do if you have the space there for them. More often it is the HDDs that overheat and cause problems than the CPUs (especially the larger the HDDs get).

As for the slot coolers, skip it. You don't need that much air flowing since it isn't really helping cooler air to come into your case. You would be better off with 1 or 2 fans on the side panel blowing air into the case around the PCI card slot areas (including GPU and possibly even close to CPU area).
Not sure if you get what I mean, so I've included a pic of my old Lian Li case that I took my dremel to and made space for 2 fans lol.

 

[dx]

I always thought they were simply rebadged products from what I read on the anandtech forums many years ago.

Untrue. PC Power and Cooling PSUs are custom made to their specifications. They may use some of the same parts as other PSU's, but they are not rebrands. As Shadoe pointed out, the quality of PC Power and Cooling PSUs components is higher than most. From their heatsinks to their power regulators, they use better and more expensive electronics than the average dog.

IMHO, PSU's are one of the most overlooked components of most systems. Peeps will purchase $2000 systems only to put a cheap $60 PSU in it. Suddenly they have lockups and BSOD's and they blame the CPU, the mobo, the RAM..... when all along it was their poor choice of PSU's.

But yes higher end Antec's are quite good. Enermax's are quite good as well, but they usually need to be modded a little for better performance. I don't know about you, but you won't get me opening a PSU anytime! There be dangerous voltages in there that will KILL you. Only a qualified electrician should perform these modifications. I would just rather spend the $30-50 for the PC Power and Cooling PSUs and be done with it.

In the end, you get what you pay for.

 

[Almighty1]

Yes you would be (if it fits), but not really needed. 60mm will do just fine there.

No it won't as the front intake fans are lower anyways and I presume you most likely have them blowing air over your HDDs? If not that is a good thing to do if you have the space there for them. More often it is the HDDs that overheat and cause problems than the CPUs (especially the larger the HDDs get).

As for the slot coolers, skip it. You don't need that much air flowing since it isn't really helping cooler air to come into your case. You would be better off with 1 or 2 fans on the side panel blowing air into the case around the PCI card slot areas (including GPU and possibly even close to CPU area).
Not sure if you get what I mean, so I've included a pic of my old Lian Li case that I took my dremel to and made space for 2 fans lol.

Nope, I have a full tower case so the HDD's are atleast 3-4 inches higher than the 3 80mm fans in the front from the bottom of the case.
My HDD's aren't the ones that overheat. I'm just wondering if 40C degrees is normal for a PIII-1Ghz 133FSB w/ Intel HeatSpreader CPU.
I haven't used a dremel before but would a drill do the job as well? I heard someone adding two 120mm fans on the side and it works pretty well for my same case. I just didn't know if they have it one on top of another or one on the left and one on the right on the left side panel of the case.

 

[Almighty1]

Untrue. PC Power and Cooling PSUs are custom made to their specifications. They may use some of the same parts as other PSU's, but they are not rebrands. As Shadoe pointed out, the quality of PC Power and Cooling PSUs components is higher than most. From their heatsinks to their power regulators, they use better and more expensive electronics than the average dog.

IMHO, PSU's are one of the most overlooked components of most systems. Peeps will purchase $2000 systems only to put a cheap $60 PSU in it. Suddenly they have lockups and BSOD's and they blame the CPU, the mobo, the RAM..... when all along it was their poor choice of PSU's.

But yes higher end Antec's are quite good. Enermax's are quite good as well, but they usually need to be modded a little for better performance. I don't know about you, but you won't get me opening a PSU anytime! There be dangerous voltages in there that will KILL you. Only a qualified electrician should perform these modifications. I would just rather spend the $30-50 for the PC Power and Cooling PSUs and be done with it.

In the end, you get what you pay for.

Heh, it seems lots of people think the Antec TruPower's are better than the PCP&C because of the dedicated rails. I actually opened a PSU before but that was like 12+ years ago because I had to replace the fan and I was only 16 or so back then and didn't know better... I just thought the Antec/Enermax PSU's would have better cooling due to the 2nd fan on the bottom which the PCP&C doesn't have.

 

[dx]

Heh, it seems lots of people think the Antec TruPower's are better than the PCP&C because of the dedicated rails. I actually opened a PSU before but that was like 12+ years ago because I had to replace the fan and I was only 16 or so back then and didn't know better... I just thought the Antec/Enermax PSU's would have better cooling due to the 2nd fan on the bottom which the PCP&C doesn't have.

Antec TruPower PSUs are very good bud. In fact it has been speculated that Antec took apart several of the higher end PSUs (like PC Power and Cooling) and just copied them. This is suggested as where the rumor that PC P & C was rebranding (Antec) PSUs. In actuality it was Antec that was copying.

The extra fan, has proven over and over again to be ineffective in the overall cooling process. It is a marketing gimmick and in fact can (if too powerful) rob the CPU heatsink and fan of crucial circulating air..... not good! And some PSUs are starting to have three fans now! Better to have a good fan at the back of the PSU and a good exhaust fan behind the CPU for best results. PC P & C won't put them on their PSUs. They want to sell quality and not the latest case fashion trend. This is why they don't use fancy paint jobs or colored and lighted fans. It may look it, but it doesn't make the PSU any cooler.

And in the end that is why I trust PC P & C PSUs. You know you have quality and rock solid PSU not marketing gimmicks. In the end, it is you that must ask yourself what is most important.

 

[Almighty1]

Antec TruPower PSUs are very good bud. In fact it has been speculated that Antec took apart several of the higher end PSUs (like PC Power and Cooling) and just copied them. This is suggested as where the rumor that PC P & C was rebranding (Antec) PSUs. In actuality it was Antec that was copying.

The extra fan, has proven over and over again to be ineffective in the overall cooling process. It is a marketing gimmick and in fact can (if too powerful) rob the CPU heatsink and fan of crucial circulating air..... not good! And some PSUs are starting to have three fans now! Better to have a good fan at the back of the PSU and a good exhaust fan behind the CPU for best results. PC P & C won't put them on their PSUs. They want to sell quality and not the latest case fashion trend. This is why they don't use fancy paint jobs or colored and lighted fans. It may look it, but it doesn't make the PSU any cooler.

And in the end that is why I trust PC P & C PSUs. You know you have quality and rock solid PSU not marketing gimmicks. In the end, it is you that must ask yourself what is most important.

I think it was just the people on the ECS K7S5A motherboard forums who were just cheapskates and think PCP&C was worst than the Antec because they think the Antec even rules the Enermax. Actually, the rebranding thing was what catachresis posted where it's PCP&C were rebranding Sparkle, Zippy/Emacs. Only recently did I hear someone said PCP&C were rebadged ChannelWell's. But the thing is that I bet they are made by the same companies but the PCP&C is probably not made in the USA like the label suggests.

But to me, it seems like Antec/Enermax/ThermalTake are all made by the same company.

But you know something funny is I noticed on everyone else's machines, you can feel hot air coming out of the PSU's. They range from the cheap ones to the Enermax/Antec's. The PCP&C I had, even the original TC-400ATX I had, the air has always been cool. Ofcourse, do you think the TurboCool-2X exhaust thingy actually does anything because I got it free from PCP&C and it is kinda noisy even though it's a 120V AC Pabst fan. This is what I'm referring to:

h**p://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/cooling/system/index_tc_2x.htm

I wonder if my airflow problem is because I have a slotone motherboard and the slot1 to 370 converter is actually sitting between the CPU and the exhaust.

I thought the Turbo-Cool 510ATX did use fancy paint jobs since it's in black from what I've seen.

I guess dxkim, the both of us want the absolute best. Just like the same reason I either don't buy something or buy the absolute best when it comes to electronics especially in high-end audio/video with my Proceed (aka Baby Mark Levinson) Amp/Pre-Amps and Pioneer PDP-4330HD Plasma Display system.

 

[catachresis]

Hey Almighty1 & others, I just wanted to point out this site.

http://www.xxera.com/hard/case.html

I ordered my Zippy/Emacs AP2-5400F-RV2S(V) from them about nine months ago, and they were remarkably polite. I see they've got some higher-spec'ed power supplies as well. I'd be curious as to what you think, Almighty1. cheers!

 

[Almighty1]

Thanks catachresis! It seems pretty interesting. I'll vote the same way dxkim does.